Holiness and the Facebook Generation

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

Does it really say we have to look different than the world? (Not written with sarcasm) I thought we were just to be separate, but still in the world. (Agree that it doesn't say clothing and hair is the separation because even the hippies tried that. )

Anyway, I would like clarification on this one.

My post was completely tongue-in-cheek. No, nowhere does it say that we have to look different. (men or women... our current Apostolic culture insists that women must look different, but not the men) Christians have looked just like the society around them for most of Christianity. It's only the past 70 years or so that we've insisted on dressing differently, as far as I can tell.

It says to be separate. In my opinion, that's going to involve the things we love and the way we act.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

In the Biblical culture, both male and female wore dresses (robes).

In our culture, both male and female wear pants.

Culture changes, always has and always will. Who knows what we'll all be wearing (or our descendants) in 500 years? Maybe everyone will be back to robes.

Cultural dress should not really be the issue. Femininity and masculinity should always be an issue. A man should look like a man, a woman should look like a woman. A woman in a pair of flowered capris and a ruffled shirt does not look remotely masculine. And yet she'd be doomed to hell by our rulebooks.

I challenge you to go to your local grocery store and see if you can within 2 seconds (per person) identify the sex of every person in that store. I'll be very surprised if you can't. If you can't, it's probably because there's someone in there who CHOSE deliberately to try to look like the opposite sex. THAT is what's a sin.

And the BIGGEST problem is that the generation that we're trying to lead to God is NOT going to understand our reasoning, for the most part. Yes, our ancestors 100 years ago viewed pants as only a man's garment. The people around us now, don't. They just think we're weird. And we have NO scripture that we can show them that says that women are forbidden to wear split-legged garments.

Was the scripture in Deut. saying that women couldn't wear robes? That's what men wore then.

Good post, I agree with you.

Also, while looking for the gender distinction, one of the first things you notice is the hair... hair is a good distinction. (facial hair included)

Those who are trying be identified w/ the opposite sex will often display it w/hair and actions. My belief is a woman should have feminine hair... and most women choose to do this... it is a woman thing!

A man cross dressing will wear a long wig, makeup and skirt/dress because all those things are inclusive to a woman. An effeminate man will take on the actions of a woman and it is wrong. A soft/effeminate man gets on my nerves and we see way too much of it today.

A woman will have a butch hair cut and wear men's pants and masculine clothing... you can spot that too.

If people would just break the mindset of tradition and look around at the culture today... just follow their heart in true conviction of serving God... they will not look like the opposite sex, there will not be a gender distinction problem.

It is just as it was in the bible days... is distinction with colors/fabrics.... we are all just smart enough to know when the pants are women's and men's. I have some of the cutest capris... not a masculine man around would be found dead in them.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

My post was completely tongue-in-cheek. No, nowhere does it say that we have to look different. (men or women... our current Apostolic culture insists that women must look different, but not the men) Christians have looked just like the society around them for most of Christianity. It's only the past 70 years or so that we've insisted on dressing differently, as far as I can tell.

It says to be separate. In my opinion, that's going to involve the things we love and the way we act.

Separate is actually a pretty tall word.

aphorizo - to set off by boundary, divide, separate, sever.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

My post was completely tongue-in-cheek. No, nowhere does it say that we have to look different. (men or women... our current Apostolic culture insists that women must look different, but not the men) Christians have looked just like the society around them for most of Christianity. It's only the past 70 years or so that we've insisted on dressing differently, as far as I can tell.

It says to be separate. In my opinion, that's going to involve the things we love and the way we act.

The differences would be Mind, Body and Soul. Everything. Doesn't justify unbiblical standards, but certainly means we would dress different than a heathen.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

The differences would be Mind, Body and Soul. Everything. Doesn't justify unbiblical standards, but certainly means we would dress different than a heathen.

A lot of heathens dress exactly as we do.

A lot of pagan women have long, uncut hair and wear skirts. I mean real pagans... the ones who proudly call themselves pagan. Many of them go in for the long hair, no makeup, skirt look.

We consider many college professors heathen, and most of them dress just like Pentecostal men.

This whole 'separate in dress' thing just has no biblical basis. We should dress in a way that is becoming to a Christian, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be drastically different.

Yes, as our world gets more naked, we are going to look more different. But not just for the sake of looking different.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

A lot of heathens dress exactly as we do.

A lot of pagan women have long, uncut hair and wear skirts. I mean real pagans... the ones who proudly call themselves pagan. Many of them go in for the long hair, no makeup, skirt look.

We consider many college professors heathen, and most of them dress just like Pentecostal men.

This whole 'separate in dress' thing just has no biblical basis. We should dress in a way that is becoming to a Christian, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be drastically different.

Yes, as our world gets more naked, we are going to look more different. But not just for the sake of looking different.

I think you missed what I was saying.

We are separted in every way you can imagine. If I am separated by my worldview and values, that bleeds into every area of my life. A woman wouldn't dress like a sleaze-bag, a man would dress like a gentleman, a youth will dress respectably. It doesn't mean no one else is or does -- I mean there's plenty of non-Christians that have some good fruit. But definitely what I see in the mirror, as a product of His image, and in consideration of my brother and sister, as well as the responsibility of being His ambassador will help me consider what to wear.. and that does (and should) make a difference!

It's not always "drastically" different, but I didn't propose that either. There may be cases where it's drastic, but for the most part, it's just living modestly, humbly and reflecting as much of Christ as we can. Clothing is an expression of you. Don't believe me? Ask the Fashion Industry. Hip Hop clothes, Hippy clothes, Athlete clothes, Preppy clothes, etc... There is a message.

(BTW, some probably wouldn't have a problem with nudity if the world started doing it. On what basis would they use?)

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

I think you missed what I was saying.

We are separted in every way you can imagine. If I am separated by my worldview and values, that bleeds into every area of my life. A woman wouldn't dress like a sleaze-bag, a man would dress like a gentleman, a youth will dress respectably. It doesn't mean no one else is or does -- I mean there's plenty of non-Christians that have some good fruit. But definitely what I see in the mirror, as a product of His image, and in consideration of my brother and sister, as well as the responsibility of being His ambassador will help me consider what to wear.. and that does (and should) make a difference!

It's not always "drastically" different, but I didn't propose that either. There may be cases where it's drastic, but for the most part, it's just living modestly, humbly and reflecting as much of Christ as we can. Clothing is an expression of you. Don't believe me? Ask the Fashion Industry. Hip Hop clothes, Hippy clothes, Athlete clothes, Preppy clothes, etc... There is a message.

(BTW, some probably wouldn't have a problem with nudity if the world started doing it. On what basis would they use?)

I agree. Christians should dress modestly and appropriately.

But many use the verse about 'being separate' to say that women must wear skirts, etc. I was addressing that viewpoint.

Nudity - well, I guess the argument against that would be the fact that God put clothes on Adam and Eve.

[GrowingPains]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I agree. Christians should dress modestly and appropriately.

But many use the verse about 'being separate' to say that women must wear skirts, etc. I was addressing that viewpoint.

Nudity - well, I guess the argument against that would be the fact that God put clothes on Adam and Eve.

*sarcasm* "Yeah, but since Christ is the new Adam, we aren't bound to all that stupid Old Testament junk!"

The fact is, our dominant culture sees certain things as immodest, and the church would be wise to stay above reproach in whatever area that is. Just wisdom.

I enjoy your perspectives QuietPlace.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

A lot of heathens dress exactly as we do.

A lot of pagan women have long, uncut hair and wear skirts. I mean real pagans... the ones who proudly call themselves pagan. Many of them go in for the long hair, no makeup, skirt look.

We consider many college professors heathen, and most of them dress just like Pentecostal men.

This whole 'separate in dress' thing just has no biblical basis. We should dress in a way that is becoming to a Christian, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be drastically different.

Yes, as our world gets more naked, we are going to look more different. But not just for the sake of looking different.

I live in a small little hick town, that has a small little hick library. Occasionally for fun, I will grab an old book, with no dust jacket to read. I recently read one called "The Quaker Bride" that was published in 1952, and was quite amusing.

The story actually took place in the 1850's and at one point the heroine (who still wore modest, plain Quaker dress) mused that the young generation of Quakers had had begun to let go of the Quaker mode of dress. For they realized that their appearance had become so far from the norm of society that it brought undue attention to them, and was actually defeating their purpose (to wear modest and simple in adornment).

There really IS nothing new under the sun!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Michlow

I live in a small little hick town, that has a small little hick library. Occasionally for fun, I will grab an old book, with no dust jacket to read. I recently read one called "The Quaker Bride" that was published in 1952, and was quite amusing.

The story actually took place in the 1850's and at one point the heroine (who still wore modest, plain Quaker dress) mused that the young generation of Quakers had had begun to let go of the Quaker mode of dress. For they realized that their appearance had become so far from the norm of society that it brought undue attention to them, and was actually defeating their purpose (to wear modest and simple in adornment).

There really IS nothing new under the sun!

Those were some wise Quakers.