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  #111  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:13 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

pelathais,

I feel you're not addressing the question I asked above. Do you believe that God created Adam and Eve supernaturally or do you believe that mankind evolved?

Please don't fear that I'll get upset and denounce you or your sincerity. I have a good Christian friend who is a theological evolutionist. He doesn't believe in a literal Adam or a literal Eve, however he believes that the story expresses a divine truth that God has communicated to man regarding mankind's sinfulness. He often says, "In Adam and Eve we find not two individuals, but ourselves." He believes that something can express an eternal truth without having to be literally true. For example the story about the "Little Boy Who Cried Wolf". We know there wasn't a literal little boy or a literal wolf, however, the moral of the story is very true. If we "cry wolf" no one will believe us when a serious event takes place. My friend believes that God himself delivered the story of Adam & Eve as an anointed story expressing eternal and spiritual truths about all of us, though there may never have been a literal Adam or a literal Eve. He also says, "God seems to always see and speak things that are not as though they are...that makes them become." I hope that makes sense, it's a very abstract concept that's often hard to wrap one's brain around.
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  #112  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:32 PM
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
there are some on this board who don't think so-at least from what I have read.
Where have you read that? Even I haven't posted that or implied it. There is a difference between saying God can do something and saying that He did do something (without even leaving evidence that He did it).
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  #113  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:46 PM
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
How do you evaluate those who see their experience with God confirming his word? So that if one part of the Bible is true, then why shouldn't the whole thing be true?

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Gal 3:1
To say that a passage was not intended to be taken literally doesn't mean that it's not true. The parables of Jesus are excellent examples. There was no man who "fell among theives" there was no "good Samaritan" but that doesn't take anything away from the command, "Go, and do thous likewise."

Galatians 3:1 exhorts us to "obey the truth" not to cast all common sense aside.
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  #114  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:50 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by Jason View Post
there are some on this board who don't think so-at least from what I have read.
Again, the question isn't "What can God do..." but "What did God do."

Based upon the evidence you see around you and the teachings of the Bible, what has God done? There may be some finer points where reasonable people can disagree - so what are the basic essentials? Does the Bible require a belief in a "global flood" even when all of the evidence of natural history shows that God never did any such thing?
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  #115  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:56 PM
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pelathais pelathais is offline
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
pelathais,

I feel you're not addressing the question I asked above. Do you believe that God created Adam and Eve supernaturally or do you believe that mankind evolved?

Please don't fear that I'll get upset and denounce you or your sincerity. I have a good Christian friend who is a theological evolutionist. He doesn't believe in a literal Adam or a literal Eve, however he believes that the story expresses a divine truth that God has communicated to man regarding mankind's sinfulness. He often says, "In Adam and Eve we find not two individuals, but ourselves." He believes that something can express an eternal truth without having to be literally true. For example the story about the "Little Boy Who Cried Wolf". We know there wasn't a literal little boy or a literal wolf, however, the moral of the story is very true. If we "cry wolf" no one will believe us when a serious event takes place. My friend believes that God himself delivered the story of Adam & Eve as an anointed story expressing eternal and spiritual truths about all of us, though there may never have been a literal Adam or a literal Eve. He also says, "God seems to always see and speak things that are not as though they are...that makes them become." I hope that makes sense, it's a very abstract concept that's often hard to wrap one's brain around.
You asked if "Adam evolved." I pointed out the problems with that question but went a bit further to try and answer the question I thought you weree trying to ask.

Yes, from the fossil record I conclude that homo sapiens did not appear spontaneously in an act of "special creation" (that phrase is somewhat loaded and carries some baggage you may or may not want to carry, but it is used commonly in this type of discussion).

However, as I pointed out with the Alfred Russell Wallace quote, I believe that the whole point of creation was to produce human beings just like you and I (and Adam) with the more particular goal of creating the First Born of all creation, Jesus Christ.
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  #116  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:59 PM
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Where have you read that? Even I haven't posted that or implied it. There is a difference between saying God can do something and saying that He did do something (without even leaving evidence that He did it).
Jason is merely struggling with concepts and ideas that he has no tools to deal with. Thus he keeps reaching back into his tool box and keeps trying to turn a Phillips Head screw with a slotted screwdriver.

In time he will accumulate more tools and will be taking care of things like a pro.
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  #117  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:13 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
You asked if "Adam evolved." I pointed out the problems with that question but went a bit further to try and answer the question I thought you weree trying to ask.

Yes, from the fossil record I conclude that homo sapiens did not appear spontaneously in an act of "special creation" (that phrase is somewhat loaded and carries some baggage you may or may not want to carry, but it is used commonly in this type of discussion).

However, as I pointed out with the Alfred Russell Wallace quote, I believe that the whole point of creation was to produce human beings just like you and I (and Adam) with the more particular goal of creating the First Born of all creation, Jesus Christ.
Cool. Do you believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead?
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  #118  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:26 PM
mizpeh mizpeh is offline
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
To say that a passage was not intended to be taken literally doesn't mean that it's not true. The parables of Jesus are excellent examples. There was no man who "fell among theives" there was no "good Samaritan" but that doesn't take anything away from the command, "Go, and do thous likewise."
Okay, but I can't say I read Genesis 1 as a parable.

Quote:
Galatians 3:1 exhorts us to "obey the truth" not to cast all common sense aside.
I think Paul is also saying that the Galatians SAW the power of God manifest through Paul in the miracles and wonders he did which confirmed the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Where do we stop explaining away miraculous, supernatural events? Where do we draw the line? Does science set the standard for what should be taken literally or figuratively in the Bible? Is science foolproof?
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  #119  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:28 PM
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
Cool. Do you believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead?
Yes. And I believe - and I believe that I can show a reasonable basis for belief in the virgin birth of Christ.
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  #120  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:42 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Genesis Flood Local Or Global ?

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Yes. And I believe - and I believe that I can show a reasonable basis for belief in the virgin birth of Christ.
Scientifically speaking, you first have to establish the existence of Jesus Christ, as he is found in the Bible. Most would argue that he was a rabbi who never claimed to be messiah. They believe that he was only a rabbi that was radically opposed to the Pharisaical power structure and executed as a heretic. They then propose that the sect of his followers slowly evolved into what is known as Christianity with borrowed stories of miracles and the resurrection.

My point???

Once we go down the road of science we can't break from it. First prove that "Jesus Christ" actually existed as is described in the Bible.
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