Facts Found~The Early Church and Standards~ - Page 12

houston · #**111** 12-19-2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

You guys seem to rather have Barabbas than Jesus.....lol.

You guys are pathetic and you make me sick.

hoovie...this is what he wanted to say from the start, and finally had the ganas to spit it out.

Socialite · #**112** 12-20-2010, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

guess i don't get it

I don't either!

The Lemon · #**113** 12-20-2010, 08:00 AM

Somebody must have fell and bumped their head! Seriously, trite and harsh attitudes never foster anything but strife and bitterness. I don't understand why some folks love to play judge, jury, and executioner, when they have never gotten to know a brother or sister to see where their heart is, much less graced the church building they frequent.

It is so easy to be either too dogmatic or too liberal, very rare to have someone that actually listens with a heart to love and understand. This type of thing really gives apostolics a bad rap!

TheLegalist · #**114** 12-20-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Have you ever been curious how the First Church regarded standards, holiness and living in a pagan culture?

Well this is a testimony by a Disciple of Polycarp named Mathetes, who most likely wrote this between 100-140AD.

I think to be an eye opener and will likely change your perspective on how the early church related to and lived in a pagan world. I highlighted some parts that I thought would be of interest to our diverse forum.

It was titled "The Manner of Christians"

For the Christians are distinguished from other men neither by country, nor language, nor the customs which they observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their own, nor employ a peculiar form of speech, nor lead a life which is marked out by any singularity. The course of conduct which they follow has not been devised by any speculation or deliberation of inquisitive men; nor do they, like some, proclaim themselves the advocates of any merely human doctrines. But, inhabiting Greek as well as barbarian cities, according as the lot of each of them has determined, and following the customs of the natives in respect to clothing, food, and the rest of their ordinary conduct, they display to us their wonderful and confessedly striking [281] method of life. They dwell in their own countries, but simply as sojourners. As citizens, they share in all things with others, and yet endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of strangers. They marry, as do all [others]; they beget children; but they do not destroy their offspring. [282] They have a common table, but not a common bed. [283] They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh. [284] They pass their days on earth, but they are citizens of heaven. [285] They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws by their lives. They love all men, and are persecuted by all. They are unknown and condemned; they are put to death, and restored to life. [286] They are poor, yet make many rich; [287] they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonoured, and yet in their very dishonour are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are reviled, and bless; [288] they are insulted, and repay the insult with honour; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they rejoice as if quickened into life; they are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred.

Way to be very selective in your presentation. How about everyone else that has been pointed out in this board by me multiple times before. With this mentality let's keep the natives naked it's just culture.

mfblume · #**115** 12-20-2010, 10:16 AM

The point in all of this is that the bible NEVER DID SAY CLOTIHING separated us from anyone as believers. Trying to argue it did and does its antiscriptural and purely an effort to uphold an unbiblical tradition no matter what the facts really are. It was LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER that distinguished the Christians from the world. And in light of the recent chat about the crowd usually being wrong, I find the crowd amongst some circles to be wrong in thinking clothing tells the world we are saved. Jesus's statement was in the minority, and still is today AMONGST SOME CIRCLES OF CHURCHES, in saying our love for one another is what tells the world we are saved.

sandie · #**116** 12-20-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

The point in all of this is that the bible NEVER DID SAY CLOTIHING separated us from anyone as believers. Trying to argue it did and does its antiscriptural and purely an effort to uphold an unbiblical tradition no matter what the facts really are. It was LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER that distinguished the Christians from the world. And in light of the recent chat about the crowd usually being wrong, I find the crowd amongst some circles to be wrong in thinking clothing tells the world we are saved. Jesus's statement was in the minority, and still is today AMONGST SOME CIRCLES OF CHURCHES, in saying our love for one another is what tells the world we are saved.

I know a church filled with people that dress the part, who summarily rejected their pastor of many years because the new pastor said to do so.

The long standing pastor was hurt beyond words. Who are the people who encouraged and comforted the retired pastor, who are the people who rejected such ungodly teaching? The ones in the church who didn't always "dress" the part, but "loved" the part.

TheLegalist · #**117** 12-20-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

The point in all of this is that the bible NEVER DID SAY CLOTIHING separated us from anyone as believers. Trying to argue it did and does its antiscriptural and purely an effort to uphold an unbiblical tradition no matter what the facts really are. It was LOVE FOR ONE ANOTHER that distinguished the Christians from the world. And in light of the recent chat about the crowd usually being wrong, I find the crowd amongst some circles to be wrong in thinking clothing tells the world we are saved. Jesus's statement was in the minority, and still is today AMONGST SOME CIRCLES OF CHURCHES, in saying our love for one another is what tells the world we are saved.

correct but love for God flows to the other areas in which we separate ourselves according to his purpose. Clothing reflects many areas and to say it doesn't is simply ignoring the obvious. God desires order in all things and clothing reflects such order. clothing does reflect love from the heart!

mfblume · #**118** 12-20-2010, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

correct but love for God flows to the other areas in which we separate ourselves according to his purpose. Clothing reflects many areas and to say it doesn't is simply ignoring the obvious. God desires order in all things and clothing reflects such order. clothing does reflect love from the heart!

Clothing would be barely tied to love FOR ONE ANOTHER. It is more love towards God in obedience even by admission of the standard promoters.

But why would clothing, of all things, first come to mind? I am simply amazed clothing ever became synonymous with holiness to begin with. So typically pharisaical. Jesus said Pharisees dress the part but their hearts are far from God. I mean, no one would read the Bible without any prior mindset and emphasize clothing the way some folks 'round here do, and they'd NEVER associate it as the first thing that comes to mind when the term HOLINESS is mentioned.

sandie · #**119** 12-20-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

correct but love for God flows to the other areas in which we separate ourselves according to his purpose. Clothing reflects many areas and to say it doesn't is simply ignoring the obvious. God desires order in all things and clothing reflects such order. clothing does reflect love from the heart!

Clothing can reflect some things: one's status, income, culture for sure.
But, love from the heart. That's almost too silly to write.
Jesus said to love Him and love others. He never wraped that up within clothing and to say otherwise is truly "ignoring the obvious".

TheLegalist · #**120** 12-20-2010, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

All must come from love for one another. But why would clothing, of all things, first come to mind? I am simply amazed clothing ever became synonymous with holiness to begin with. So typically pharisaical. Jesus said Pharisees dress the part but their hearts are far from God. I mean, no one would read the Bible without any prior mindset and emphasize clothing the way some folks 'round here do, and they'd NEVER associate it as the first thing that comes to mind when the term HOLINESS is mentioned.

because clothing is a extension of attitude. To say we don't express ourselves by clothing is really ignoring the point. To also say NO responsibility was placed in clothing is also ignoring the point. GOd cares about every aspect of our life. Does clothing save? Of course not but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter and we just do whatever we want. Holiness is reflecting God's will and order for our lives. to say distinction in clothing does not reflect setting apart.... sorry but that ignores any common sense.