The Apostolic Welfare Culture

As long as the church structures its existence on a business model, there will be this "tension", because most people recognise there is a "tension" between "job and family". The job wants you to do for them, PERIOD. They weasel, whine, threaten, promise and bribe you to do more for less. Many jobs expect you to sacrifice family time for them. It's just the nature of "employment", not necessarily a bad thing. Every employee worth his.her salt understands this, and acts accordingly - one has to learn when to say "No" to the boss. No to excess overtime, No to too much working on the weekends, etc.

But, as long as the church models itself on the business model, with the pastor as CEO/boss man and the saints as human resource material to be directed into accomplishing the CEO's "vision", there will be this "tension" between church and family.

The church will make demands on the time and money and talent of the individual to the expense of the family.

And this ought not to be.

The average run of the mill church today is NOT "family friendly".

Oh, and creating a plethora of "programs for every family member" is NOT the solution.

Churches need to return to what they originally were - A FAMILY. The family of God. God's HOUSEHOLD, not a business or charity organisation dedicated to fulfilling some one man's "visions". God's household is an extended household, composed not merely of "individuals" but of FAMILIES.

As soon as we discover the Biblical truth of "household salvation" we will have come a long way toward solving this unnecessary dichotomy between "church and family".

(Note: "Household salvation" as I use the term is NOT the idea that babies should be baptised, but rather it is the truth that God is in the business of saving and redeeming ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household." Many if not most of the early churches described in the Scripture were HOUSEHOLD churches, meaning entire households were converted, forming the nucleus of the local church, growing as new households are added to the body.

We have to get back to a FAMILY-oriented model of the church rather than the business-oriented model.)

[Nahum]

When I assisted in another assembly, it had snowed really hard one Saturday evening. Most folks called the pastor to say they couldn't make it to church, the roads were just too bad. So he cancelled church.

Sunday morning my phone rang. A group of about 50 young marrieds and their kids had decided they were going to drive the 30 miles to Art Hill in downtown St Louis to go sledding.

I went with them.

It was too dangerous to have church, but just fine to go sledding.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Chan

Then you really don't know what the Church is if you think it's outreach, Sunday School, etc. The CHURCH is the body of Christ. WE are Jesus' arms, legs, intestines, etc. and Jesus is the Head. If you are putting your family before THAT, you love your family more than you love Jesus (since you're putting your family before your place in the body of Christ) and, according to Jesus, are not worthy of Him. Even JESUS put His ministry before His earthly family. When His mother and siblings came to talk to Him one time and someone in the crowd told Him, what did He say? He said (paraphrase) "Who is my mother and who are my brothers? They who do the will of God are my mother and sister and brother." Peter was running all over Israel with Jesus instead of being at home with his family.

Chancellor,
Isn't the church only as strong as the family? Haven't we seen people so involved in church that they neglect their family and don't remain strong enough to stay together.

Or is it just some of these are Martha in the church and not the Mary that cause this?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

As long as the church structures its existence on a business model, there will be this "tension", because most people recognise there is a "tension" between "job and family". The job wants you to do for them, PERIOD. They weasel, whine, threaten, promise and bribe you to do more for less. Many jobs expect you to sacrifice family time for them. It's just the nature of "employment", not necessarily a bad thing. Every employee worth his.her salt understands this, and acts accordingly - one has to learn when to say "No" to the boss. No to excess overtime, No to too much working on the weekends, etc.

But, as long as the church models itself on the business model, with the pastor as CEO/boss man and the saints as human resource material to be directed into accomplishing the CEO's "vision", there will be this "tension" between church and family.

The church will make demands on the time and money and talent of the individual to the expense of the family.

And this ought not to be.

The average run of the mill church today is NOT "family friendly".

Oh, and creating a plethora of "programs for every family member" is NOT the solution.

Churches need to return to what they originally were - A FAMILY. The family of God. God's HOUSEHOLD, not a business or charity organisation dedicated to fulfilling some one man's "visions". God's household is an extended household, composed not merely of "individuals" but of FAMILIES.

As soon as we discover the Biblical truth of "household salvation" we will have come a long way toward solving this unnecessary dichotomy between "church and family".

(Note: "Household salvation" as I use the term is NOT the idea that babies should be baptised, but rather it is the truth that God is in the business of saving and redeeming ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household." Many if not most of the early churches described in the Scripture were HOUSEHOLD churches, meaning entire households were converted, forming the nucleus of the local church, growing as new households are added to the body.

We have to get back to a FAMILY-oriented model of the church rather than the business-oriented model.)

Well said!

POTD!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

When I assisted in another assembly, it had snowed really hard one Saturday evening. Most folks called the pastor to say they couldn't make it to church, the roads were just too bad. So he cancelled church.

Sunday morning my phone rang. A group of about 50 young marrieds and their kids had decided they were going to drive the 30 miles to Art Hill in downtown St Louis to go sledding.

I went with them.

It was too dangerous to have church, but just fine to go sledding.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

CS,

Even in the workplace it is give and take. You want people to work for you, over time and extra then you make the conditions right for it to happen.

You can't continually beat up saints, discipline them till they can't stand, and the ask them to do such things over and above...
Saints, like Pastors, need affirmation that what they are doing makes a difference and is appreciated.

Is it too difficult to expect mutual appreciation, mutual affirmation? Then it becomes a happy and pleasant thing to sacrifice. We all really want to anyway...

Rhoni,

Just out of curiousity, how in the cat hair did you assume from anything I wrote that I:

"Continually beat up saints..."

"Discipline them till they can't stand..."

Don't affirm them

''Don't appreciate them...

Expect them to "work for me..."

You are not just reading between the lines, you are reading way beyond the lines.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

As long as the church structures its existence on a business model, there will be this "tension", because most people recognise there is a "tension" between "job and family". The job wants you to do for them, PERIOD. They weasel, whine, threaten, promise and bribe you to do more for less. Many jobs expect you to sacrifice family time for them. It's just the nature of "employment", not necessarily a bad thing. Every employee worth his.her salt understands this, and acts accordingly - one has to learn when to say "No" to the boss. No to excess overtime, No to too much working on the weekends, etc.

But, as long as the church models itself on the business model, with the pastor as CEO/boss man and the saints as human resource material to be directed into accomplishing the CEO's "vision", there will be this "tension" between church and family.

The church will make demands on the time and money and talent of the individual to the expense of the family.

And this ought not to be.

The average run of the mill church today is NOT "family friendly".

Oh, and creating a plethora of "programs for every family member" is NOT the solution.

Churches need to return to what they originally were - A FAMILY. The family of God. God's HOUSEHOLD, not a business or charity organisation dedicated to fulfilling some one man's "visions". God's household is an extended household, composed not merely of "individuals" but of FAMILIES.

As soon as we discover the Biblical truth of "household salvation" we will have come a long way toward solving this unnecessary dichotomy between "church and family".

(Note: "Household salvation" as I use the term is NOT the idea that babies should be baptised, but rather it is the truth that God is in the business of saving and redeeming ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household." Many if not most of the early churches described in the Scripture were HOUSEHOLD churches, meaning entire households were converted, forming the nucleus of the local church, growing as new households are added to the body.

We have to get back to a FAMILY-oriented model of the church rather than the business-oriented model.)

Good post.

Originally Posted by Rhoni

CS,

Even in the workplace it is give and take. You want people to work for you, over time and extra then you make the conditions right for it to happen.

You can't continually beat up saints, discipline them till they can't stand, and the ask them to do such things over and above...
Saints, like Pastors, need affirmation that what they are doing makes a difference and is appreciated.

Is it too difficult to expect mutual appreciation, mutual affirmation? Then it becomes a happy and pleasant thing to sacrifice. We all really want to anyway...

This is worldy wisdom (and, thus, foolishness to God).

It is exactly this kind of wicked self-centeredness that the original poster was talking about and your "profession" is just as wicked because it promotes exactly that kind of self-centeredness in all that psychobabble about "self-esteem" (when the Bible says "esteem others") and meeting your own needs (the Bible tells us to meet the needs of others and to die to ourselves).

As for pastors supposedly beating up the saints constantly, I doubt that is happening all that often. I suspect that what's really going on is that the saints are being a bunch of self-centered, whiny crybabies who are upset because the pastor is trying to get them to die to themselves, take up their crosses and follow Jesus. Maybe if the saints stopped trying to exercise autonomy over themselves instead of obeying those whom GOD has placed to rule over them, maybe if the saints stopped viewing themselves as independent individuals instead of body parts in Christ's body dependent on one another and on Christ, they wouldn't feel like they were being beat up.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

The idea of there being some kind of "Tension" or conflict between "God, church, family" is unbiblical. There is nothing in the Scripture that identifies Christians (converted people, saints) having to deal with this supposed "tension" that modern Christians seem to be dealing with. I can't recall any verses which indicate there was a "problem" in this area among the early Christians. I don't recall there being an "issue" with "juggling God, church, and family responsibilities" in the Bible.

I wonder why?

Perhaps we don't have the religion they had in the Bible...

I have know way of guessing what the word RELIGION means when you use it in a post but.....

I believe we do not have the DELIVERY network in operation that they had in the bible.

Men have reasserted dominion among individuals where the Spirit purposes to have sole dominion.

Its almost unthinkable for most of us to believe that God is the potter doing the work, the author and finisher of his own house, his own church, his Christ.

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Eliseus

As long as the church structures its existence on a business model, there will be this "tension", because most people recognise there is a "tension" between "job and family". The job wants you to do for them, PERIOD. They weasel, whine, threaten, promise and bribe you to do more for less. Many jobs expect you to sacrifice family time for them. It's just the nature of "employment", not necessarily a bad thing. Every employee worth his.her salt understands this, and acts accordingly - one has to learn when to say "No" to the boss. No to excess overtime, No to too much working on the weekends, etc.

But, as long as the church models itself on the business model, with the pastor as CEO/boss man and the saints as human resource material to be directed into accomplishing the CEO's "vision", there will be this "tension" between church and family.

The church will make demands on the time and money and talent of the individual to the expense of the family.

And this ought not to be.

The average run of the mill church today is NOT "family friendly".

Oh, and creating a plethora of "programs for every family member" is NOT the solution.

Churches need to return to what they originally were - A FAMILY. The family of God. God's HOUSEHOLD, not a business or charity organisation dedicated to fulfilling some one man's "visions". God's household is an extended household, composed not merely of "individuals" but of FAMILIES.

As soon as we discover the Biblical truth of "household salvation" we will have come a long way toward solving this unnecessary dichotomy between "church and family".

(Note: "Household salvation" as I use the term is NOT the idea that babies should be baptised, but rather it is the truth that God is in the business of saving and redeeming ENTIRE HOUSEHOLDS. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household." Many if not most of the early churches described in the Scripture were HOUSEHOLD churches, meaning entire households were converted, forming the nucleus of the local church, growing as new households are added to the body.

We have to get back to a FAMILY-oriented model of the church rather than the business-oriented model.)

Great words here!! Fantastic post!

I second the POTD