Remind me - Who is voting FOR McCain?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

This is where the American people fundamentally disagree with you and John McCain. They think your view has been wrong from day one. What's baffling is given the intelligence failures that led to this ill advised war, John McCain and you feel like it was STILL the right thing to do. That's implausible to most folks.

Saddam Hussein didn't have weapons of mass destruction despite what bad intelligence said. The U.N. inspections actually WORKED and Hans Blitz was in the process of confirming that when we went to war. The attacks of 9/11 had ZERO to do with Iraq. Al-qaeda wasn't welcome there and never set up forces there until AFTER the U.S. invasion. We created a vacuum which CREATED al-qaeda of Iraq.

Given all that info John McCain and you still believe it was the correct decision even though it had nothing to do with the War on Terror or making this country safer. That dog doesn't hunt with the majority of Americans.

I think that position calls John McCain's judgment into question more than any other issue you discussed. If, in hindsight, he really believes it's correct to invade foreign countries, costing this country life and treasure, that are within their borders, not possessing WMD's and of no immediate threat to our interests, I guess any non-democratic country is a candidate under that sort of silly foreign policy. That sort of judgment is frightening.

Invading Iraq is unjustifiable and yet he won't admit that error.

Well Mike, we fundamentally disagree. I am glad to see you found one thing out of all I said to disagree with.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Well Mike, we fundamentally disagree. I am glad to see you found one thing out of all I said to disagree with.

There are more and I may take the time later to explain my differences. I do respect you putting that much attention and effort in putting your thoughts out there. You're very articulate and present them well....even if they are wrong.

Just to be 100% clear, you truly believe knowing what you know TODAY, that going into Iraq was the correct decision to make? I'm not vilifying GWB right now even though he's unltimately accountable. I understand the wrong intelligence and shadow of 9/11 we were living through in March of 2003.

But in September of 08 given what we know, you still believe it was correct?

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

There are more and I may take the time later to explain my differences. I do respect you putting that much attention and effort in putting your thoughts out there. You're very articulate and present them well....even if they are wrong.

Just to be 100% clear, you truly believe knowing what you know TODAY, that going into Iraq was the correct decision to make? I'm not vilifying GWB right now even though he's unltimately accountable. I understand the wrong intelligence and shadow of 9/11 we were living through in March of 2003.

But in September of 08 given what we know, you still believe it was correct?

I do. I think that removing the evil out there is important. Is is worth it though, maybe not. Cause if good exists evil does too no matter what happens. I think taking out Osama would be nice and taking Sadam down was good. But I am affraid that once you take down a bad leader someone is being groomed to take over and the newcomer might be tons worse than the original.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

There are more and I may take the time later to explain my differences. I do respect you putting that much attention and effort in putting your thoughts out there. You're very articulate and present them well....even if they are wrong.

Just to be 100% clear, you truly believe knowing what you know TODAY, that going into Iraq was the correct decision to make? I'm not vilifying GWB right now even though he's unltimately accountable. I understand the wrong intelligence and shadow of 9/11 we were living through in March of 2003.

But in September of 08 given what we know, you still believe it was correct?

Mike, I truely believe that if we had not gone into Iraq when we did, we would:
1. be fighting Al Quada in America not Iraq.
2. we would have vertually no leverage to use against Iran.

I also believe that establishing a democracy in Iraq, is a vital long term stratigic goal that will pay huge dividends for American secruity over the long term.

so yes, knowing what I know now, I belive it was the right thing to do. The only thing I find wrong with what GWB did was underestimating the degree to which democrats will go to regain power, and listening to Rumsfeld on returning to Vietnam era stratagy.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I do. I think that removing the evil out there is important. Is is worth it though, maybe not. Cause if good exists evil does too no matter what happens. I think taking out Osama would be nice and taking Sadam down was good. But I am affraid that once you take down a bad leader someone is being groomed to take over and the newcomer might be tons worse than the original.

Removing evil dictators, posing no immediate threat to American security or interests, is important enough to lose 4169 brave men and women and spend over $750 billion on the way to $1 TRILLION dollars?? That sort of crusading will bankrupt this country.

If removing evil is our new goal, we'll need to get a working list of "evil" countries to invade. I'll start the list:

North Korea
Iran
China
Cuba
Venezuela

and within the next 10 years
Russia


Wow, we've got our work cut out for us.

[MikeinAR]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Mike, I truely believe that if we had not gone into Iraq when we did, we would:
1. be fighting Al Quada in America not Iraq.

Can you explain that to me.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by 1399

Ferd,

It was refreshing to see your views presented about Sen. Obama without disparaging him as a man.

That said, Michelle's comments were not out of line. There are many folks who believe that one of the reasons that McCain chose Palin was because of her appearance.

She is beautiful. She's been a Governor for less than 2 years. She was Mayor of a town that has less people in it than my neighborhood.

That's where the latent sexism comes in, and a lot of people dont even recognize it.

Why is the woman's looks an issue. McCain's campaign hasnt made an issue of it. But Palin's adversaries have, in order to trivialize her as just some "beauty queen" being chosen for the position.

But she is the governor of a state, has been for 2 years, and has the highest approval rating of any governor in the country! For democrats to keep bringing up the "maybe he chose her 'cause she's cute" nonsense is very insulting to women as a whole, because it objectifies her, and tries to detract from her political accomplishments and strengths.

That said, I feel like Michele Obama's comments are insulting to Palin's suporters, as if to imply that they'd be influenced by her looks as to wheter or not to vote for her. Thats would be just stupid.

If Republicans were making similar comments about a Democratic female candidate, we know the feminist groups would be up in arms about it, and calling conservatives all kind of names for their "blatant sexist" etc. (But I've notices that feminist groups dont criticize sexist behaviour on the part of liberals the way the do on the part of conservatives. )

I think Democrats are afraid of the Palin Factor, and realize now this thing isnt going to be a coronation for King Obama like they expected. They're grasping at straws. Its a sad thing to see... but a little amusing too, to see them getting their panties all twisted up over "The Killa from Wasilla".

[Esther]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

There are more and I may take the time later to explain my differences. I do respect you putting that much attention and effort in putting your thoughts out there. You're very articulate and present them well....even if they are wrong.

Just to be 100% clear, you truly believe knowing what you know TODAY, that going into Iraq was the correct decision to make? I'm not vilifying GWB right now even though he's unltimately accountable. I understand the wrong intelligence and shadow of 9/11 we were living through in March of 2003.

But in September of 08 given what we know, you still believe it was correct?

Have you forgotten that CONGRESS voted to go to war? But I guess it is easier to blame Bush if you don't like him.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Mike, I truely believe that if we had not gone into Iraq when we did, we would:
1. be fighting Al Quada in America not Iraq.
2. we would have vertually no leverage to use against Iran.

I also believe that establishing a democracy in Iraq, is a vital long term stratigic goal that will pay huge dividends for American secruity over the long term.

so yes, knowing what I know now, I belive it was the right thing to do. The only thing I find wrong with what GWB did was underestimating the degree to which democrats will go to regain power, and listening to Rumsfeld on returning to Vietnam era stratagy.

I agree Ferd.

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

I doubt that he is any kind of a speaker without teleprompts. He seems pretty slow on the draw and goes into the mantra when he gets a question outside of the list of acceptible questions.

Your right about that.