1399, why are you so reluctant to believe certain things can go on in church settings? In a previous church we attended, the young married men talked graphically to one another (and in front of my husband) about the particular and SPECIFIC physical features of other men's wives.
One man and his wife were standing in the church entry after service, and I was talking to the wife...the husband walked up to his wife, (and pardon my bluntness, but you seem to need to hear it), roughly grabbed her in the crotch (in the front--not just a little pinch), and then looked me dead in the eye and laughed--it was for MY benefit--not hers. I was so shocked, I just turned on my heel and walked out, and his wife turned red as a beet.
That, my dear, is just the tip of the iceberg. The rest I can't say. Period. And won't.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
1399, why are you so reluctant to believe certain things can go on in church settings? In a previous church we attended, the young married men talked graphically to one another (and in front of my husband) about the particular and SPECIFIC physical features of other men's wives.
One man and his wife were standing in the church entry after service, and I was talking to the wife...the husband walked up to his wife, (and pardon my bluntness, but you seem to need to hear it), roughly grabbed her in the crotch (in the front--not just a little pinch), and then looked me dead in the eye and laughed--it was for MY benefit--not hers. I was so shocked, I just turned on my heel and walked out, and his wife turned red as a beet.
That, my dear, is just the tip of the iceberg. The rest I can't say. Period. And won't.
Yikes! If I did that to my wife in public I would be missing some fingers or perhaps my entire hand.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Yikes! If I did that to my wife in public I would be missing some fingers or perhaps my entire hand.
I know! My husband would not DARE disrespect me like that.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Bro. Epley and I have mentioned here on AFF about a UPC church in the 60's, in the Chicago area, that started having spiritual husbands and wifes to go along with their natural husbands and wives. The problem was that the spiritual husbands and wives starting having natural sex! The pastor: Rev. Clarence Hobbs.
Of course, they were kicked out of the UPC. The church ended up closing it's doors and many of the people moved out west together!
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
Bro. Epley and I have mentioned here on AFF about a UPC church in the 60's, in the Chicago area, that started having spiritual husbands and wifes to go along with their natural husbands and wives. The problem was that the spiritual husbands and wives starting having natural sex! The pastor: Rev. Clarence Hobbs.
Of course, they were kicked out of the UPC. The church ended up closing it's doors and many of the people moved out west together!
Yup. That is the one documented instance I know of that happening in a UPC church.
This other stuff I am hearing is just unsubstantiated rumors.
There is also the story of a very successful Charismatic preacher from the 80's or early 90's somewhere in Oregon or Washington if memory serves me correct that had the same "spiritual husbands" and "spiritual wives" mess going on. Back on FCF or NFCF somone posted a link to some videos of services where men and women were "dancing in the spirit" or some such thing with their "spiritual husband or wife". That situation ended in disaster also. If I remember right someone who had been a member of that church actually posted on FCF or NFCF about what happened to that church. I think that pastor had some kind of Oneness background also.
__________________ "I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
There are hypocritical people everywhere and in every organization. There were evil people in the New Testament church and even one of the twelve turned out to be evil. I can accept that some serious wrong was done by individuals in some churches. In fact I think it would be incredibly naive to not expect that. What I resist is a notion or implication that somehow this is a growing or endemic problem in the UPC. In my opinion the actual organization is such a non-factor in these stories that it could be left out altogether.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
There are hypocritical people everywhere and in every organization. There were evil people in the New Testament church and even one of the twelve turned out to be evil. I can accept that some serious wrong was done by individuals in some churches. In fact I think it would be incredibly naive to not expect that. What I resist is a notion or implication that somehow this is a growing or endemic problem in the UPC. In my opinion the actual organization is such a non-factor in these stories that it could be left out altogether.
I agree with you. I don't think it's a widespread problem at all. And I also agree that the organization is irrelevant.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Something this egregious was confessed to your Pastor, which he then turned around and talked to you about it, right?
For what purpose did this conversation happen between you and your Pastor? Why would he violate the confidentiality of some poor saint who's had himself and his wife laid by this "Bishop"?
DOES ANY ONE ELSE SEE THE ASININITY IN THIS?????
Who is this "Bishop" and did your Pastor pass the information of this guy's gross misconduct to higher leadership?
You're full of baloney too!
It isn't good to lie.
If you are ignorant enough to think that this does not happen and everyone is lying about this sort of thing then no responce can convince you.
The name of the Bishop is none of your business, I will not give it. Suffice it to say that he was apostolic. The reason my pastor told me is also none of your business, I needed to know for a ministry purpose. As far as passing the information on to a higher authority is my pastors business and I did not ask, nor should you. DOES ANY ONE ELSE SEE THE ASININITY IN THIS, you being so nosey?
Well, I know several couples wherein the male considers the female to be his "property" and that it's perfectly allowable to "share" her if he wants to do so.
Well, I know several couples wherein the male considers the female to be his "property" and that it's perfectly allowable to "share" her if he wants to do so.
Be careful, according to 1399 you must name them, report them, (and I assume pass whatever test will be done with the information), or you will be called untruthful.
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