UPC - "Apostolic" Wesleyan Holiness Standards

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Gary Blacksher

Prove IT!

I had to go to the store. But I am back. I have been looking through the book and have yet to find this quote. I am and will continue looking. If I am wrong I will publicly and with sackcloth and ashes apologize for challenging Sam or you.

Also on the premises that you and others are using to state that I am judging people as liars, which you condem, you are doing the same to me. If what I have said is calling someone an outright boldface liar and it is wrong then please do not do the same to me.

You are asking us to prove that you accused AB of lying?

Ok, here we go.........your first post on this thread:

GB:My friend if you are going to be this bold than so am I.

What you are saying about the Apostolic Church and the standards of holiness are ALL lies.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Gary Blacksher

They always go to this when they can't prove anything. A failing tactic that I find laughable.

Uh............hello, kettle? This is pot.......YOU'RE BLACK!

[Brett Prince]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

I have family that are UPC and some of them are COG (Cleveland) and I can tell you that the COG strongly enforced standards until the late 1970s to 1980. My grandfather was a pioneer preacher for the COG and he was as strict as any Apostolic conservative today.

What I found to be evident when the COG dropped standards it seemed, generally speaking, that the depth of the demonstration of the Holy Ghost deminished in their services.

Sadly, I've seen the same thing happen to many congregations who left the UPC in the late 1990's. I thought of myself as a member of the liberal camp, but I found the Lord leading me back to the conservative camp.

This concerns me as well. Additionally, I have noticed that as some congregations adopt modern worship styles, it seems that the demonstration leaves as well. I don't mean "modern songs" in general, by this, I mean a more charismatic style of worship in general. Truly bothers me. It is probably one of the greatest reasons that, while I don't lay salvation at the feet of any one of our "traditional UPC standards," I have a love for them and have no desire to take leave of them.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

So if Goss approved the wearing of jewels by the women in the movement, at which juncture along the way did jewelry become forbidden?

Good question and not one I am sure could be definitively answer. I do think, and give room to, the possibility of an emerging lifestyle change taking place as society drifted from a conservative mindset and thec church sought to be separate.

I think we all know that pictures can be provided that show beards, moustaches and jewelry. And we can provide some that have none of those. IMO it was merging people coming together with merging beliefs and lifestyle decisions.

Originally Posted by Gary Blacksher

Bro. I have the 1958 1st print hard back version of "The Winds of God" by Ethel Goss.

None of this is found on pg69. Not even 68 or 70.

Sorry

I have the paperback book, too, and the quote is as Sam stated on page 69.

It is found in chapter four, Kicked into the Ministry, more than halfway through the chapter.

Perhaps this will help.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by burnedtoo

I have the paperback book, too, and the quote is as Sam stated on page 69.

It is found in chapter four, Kicked into the Ministry, more than halfway through the chapter.

Perhaps this will help.

Out of the ashes ... good to see you Burned.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by rrford

Good question and not one I am sure could be definitively answer. I do think, and give room to, the possibility of an emerging lifestyle change taking place as society drifted from a conservative mindset and thec church sought to be separate.

I think we all know that pictures can be provided that show beards, moustaches and jewelry. And we can provide some that have none of those. IMO it was merging people coming together with merging beliefs and lifestyle decisions.

I'll buy this to an extent. However, if society was even more conservative in the early 1900's, it would seem that the wearing of jewelry would have been even more out of place then. Almost a reverse separation, if you will.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by burnedtoo

I have the paperback book, too, and the quote is as Sam stated on page 69.

It is found in chapter four, Kicked into the Ministry, more than halfway through the chapter.

Perhaps this will help.

Thank you burnedtoo!

I thought I was going to have to drive to my dad's to get the book and scan it - - probably still will since Mr. Know-it-All-NOT wants to fuss about it.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I'll buy this to an extent. However, if society was even more conservative in the early 1900's, it would seem that the wearing of jewelry would have been even more out of place then. Almost a reverse separation, if you will.

I agree! Not sure why we had to go messing with all these extra rules to complicate things and cause so much division within our own organization.

If you read Goss' book, you realize they didn't let these things get in their way of saving lost souls. Maybe we could learn something from history!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

I think the guy basically called Sam and I liars? Ya think?

No, he didn't call me a liar.
He said he has the hardback and what I quoted is not on those pages in the hardback. I don't have the hardback any more. I think what I quoted is on the pages I referenced in the paperback but I can't find my paperback copy right now. I would not be deceptive or lie about that.

Check your hardback copy and see if that is in there somewhere. Meanwhile, I'll check the version I have on CD from vol.2 Pentecostal Digital Reference Library called Pentecostal History. It was purchased from the UPC Publishing House.