Forum is Ex-Pentecostal??

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by CC1

FCF, NFCF and AFF had acheived a rare and treasured dynamic where persons from every spectrum of Pentecost (except Branhamites!) could come and respectfully cross swords.

Of course at times lines were crossed. We all have been quilty of that (well all but probably Scott Hutchison. He apologizes for killing flies). However we always stepped back from the abyss, took a deep breath, and resumed respectful dialogue.

The very nature of conservative old time Oneness Pentecostalism does not lend itself to much introspection and certainy not public debate of it's doctrines, traditions, issues ,etc.

Many of what liberals and some moderates consider traditions are dearly held "biblical views" to conservatives. To have those views trashed, ridiculed, made fun of, and disrespeccted post after post, day after day had a debilitating effect.

AFF became a place where conservatives no longer felt respected, welcome, and on an even playing field. In short order most of them, the preachers anyway, took their marbles and started playing in their own field. I don't really blame them as much as I wanted them to stay.

Thankfully over time some never left and some are venturing back. I hope we don't make the same mistake again.

I believe in strong discussion and have crossed swords with every con and ultra con that ever posted on AFF but I have tried to do it in a way that a bond of resepct and friendship can be developed despite our differences. I don' always succeed but I try.

CC1 I have argued and debated every subject and issue present in Pentecost on these forums. The tone for season from some were so out of bounds that I felt I was at an anti-Pentecostal site so I came less and less. I think overall it has improved. I personally enjoyed the chemistry of FCF boy the sparks would fly. It had such a wide spectrum of posters it was fun. I really do not thinkit has ever been recaptured but it may have been because it was so new to many of us.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

CC1 I have argued and debated every subject and issue present in Pentecost on these forums. The tone for season from some were so out of bounds that I felt I was at an anti-Pentecostal site so I came less and less. I think overall it has improved. I personally enjoyed the chemistry of FCF boy the sparks would fly. It had such a wide spectrum of posters it was fun. I really do not thinkit has ever been recaptured but it may have been because it was so new to many of us.

I would love to have a copy of my first few posts in response to yours those many years ago when FCF was just getting going!

I think you raised my blood pressure a good twenty points until I got to know you better and read more posts.

[rrford]

Interesting thread. Especially the last 2 pages.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by CC1

I would love to have a copy of my first few posts in response to yours those many years ago when FCF was just getting going!

I think you raised my blood pressure a good twenty points until I got to know you better and read more posts.

I came in both guns blazing. Boyd & Groce would call me laughing their heads off. The shock value did work.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

... and isn't it ironic?


AND ... the internet ... with open discussion and message boards ... is doing more than television could ever do to relegate "ole time pentecost" to just a footnote in religious history books.

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

[Steve Epley]

I am afraid Timlan is correct on weak and niave folks come on the internet and because they might have some questions they are indeed influenced by stuff they read on the internet.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Dan, you are the most divisive poster in Faithchild/AFF history.

You claim it is so-called "three stepper Water & Spirit" adherants who are divisive but it is folks like you, Timlan, MOW and others who lead the charge to divide.

Your group does not want unification and toleration. You want to dominate. You want to change what it means to be Oneness Pentecostal. Surely you do not deny this? THIS IS YOUR AGENDA.

AFF is the best platform in the world for your group and you well know it. As a matter of fact, AFF is the only valid platform for your ideals.

Further, you are nothing close to PCI. You Sir, are an imposter.

You pose, preen and distract with patently Pentecostal catch-phrases while you peddle a new-fangled toleration of capitulation to Ecumenicalism to anyone foolish enough to give an ear.

Daniel, why is it you never, ever focus on anything but how repugnant three-step doctrine is? You never focus on the similarities between the old PCi and the PAJCers. You always point out differences.

Now tell me bubba, who is divisive?

Originally Posted by timlan2057

Well, Ed is entitled to his views.

I sincerely don't think I was ever "divisive." Heck, I don't post that much anymore.

I am indeed ex-pentecostal and from a standpoint of "reaching and impacting the world" I believe "old time pentecost" with its extra-biblical traditions, lack of critical thinking and an uneducated ministry - has been a miserable failure and is losing relevance with each passing day, year and decade.

I do believe Dan is wrong when he pegs Ed as an "ultracon".

Within the paradigm of "ole time pentecost", PP is anything but that.

I like Ed.

I do find it a little amusing that he no doubt looks in the mirror and thinks of himself as liberal and openminded and issues-and-substance oriented.

Yet he does little lately but carp and gripe when someone doesn't express his exact views.

Like Doug White, Renfro and a few of the other Johnny-come-latelys who started this board, Ed believes that a "pentecostal' board should be such that liberals like Dan or CC1 should just chime in with a "Yes Massuh ... I gwine be good!" every now and then.

His definition of an "apostolic" board is where "ole time pentecost" wins when any other views, are hamstrung, censored and contrived.

I find that view rather contradictory in an otherwise pretty intelligent guy.

Now When I say that White, Renfro and PP are and were Johnny-come-latelys is that they were not around at the beginning when Jim Yohe founded Faithchild.

Jim, for the most part, believed "truth" could stand up to error and win because it was truth.

These guys try to prop religious tradition up as truth and think a message board should be censored and contrived to that end.

But ... as Lenin said ... facts are stubborn things.

These guys are so far removed from Jim Yohe's original vision of a discussion board it ain't even funny.

And no ... I'm not making Jim Yohe the pope or anything.

But anyway ... Ed is certainly welcome to express his frustration.

I just don't believe in "contrived" message boards.

Let the best argument win.

Ed is right on one thing though.

I do feel a discussion board such as this is an arena and while we "fight" each other, I am posting not so much to other posters, but to the lurkers.

Coonskinner and a couple of his cronies pooh-poohed the idea of message boards changing "ole time pentecost."

They were just whistling Dixie in the graveyard.

The internet is changing a lot of things.

But unlike these pentecostal preachers, I don't believe it is because people are weak minded and easily swayed.

I have more faith in human nature than that.

Change is happening because ... well again ... facts are stubborn things.

I will readily admit that I have not been "substance and issues oriented" over the past few months. I found my attempts at such an exercise in futility because it would always devolve into a stupid one-step vs three-step argument by the agenda hijackers.

You are right, I hate the term "open-minded" and all it implies.

But the greatest mistake you, MOW, Daniel and other Ex's make is to think that I am party to some sort of plantation mentality. Friend, I have suffered for my disagreements with the status quo in a real and lasting way. MY disagreements with "the man" costs me something.

And...for the record, I have disagreed much more vociferously with Renfro and White than I ever have with Daniel Alicea.

I will give Daniel this much. We may rip each other to shreds on this forum. We may disagree in a nuclear way. But he has never once tried to hurt me in real life.

I wish I could say that about some of the others you mentioned.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

I am not Timlan, but let me say this.

All information is powerful.

AFF is the greatest voice available to folks like Daniel, MOW and TIm.

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

Ah, the old "if you can't name specific people etc. then it ain't true" defense.

Well ... actually Mizpeh, yes I have talked with quite a few. But I wasn't basing what I said on that.

And yes ... I know the internet is a bit bigger than AFF though you'd be surprised who lurks here.

Tell you what ... let's give it a few years and let's see who's right ... okay?

[timlan2057]

But the greatest mistake you, MOW, Daniel and other Ex's make is to think that I am party to some sort of plantation mentality. Friend, I have suffered for my disagreements with the status quo in a real and lasting way. MY disagreements with "the man" costs me something.

And...for the record, I have disagreed much more vociferously with Renfro and White than I ever have with Daniel Alicea.

I will give Daniel this much. We may rip each other to shreds on this forum. We may disagree in a nuclear way. But he has never once tried to hurt me in real life.

I wish I could say that about some of the others you mentioned.

Well, the latter is none of my business, though of course you prove my point.

I don't say that in a triumphant way ... just that there we go that you are an example as a victim of the mentality that if we can't meet their arguments with substance we'll strike back and try to "hurt" them.

But ... just because you can fit into a "plantation" analogy as a slave ...

... DOESN'T mean that in another sense and with other posters you can't ALSO fit into the analogy as the overseer. ; )