Should standards be an issue when witnessing?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm on the other side of the fence concerning standards, Lady Chocolate, but I agree with what you've said and your conviction to dress as you feel pleasing unto God.


Staysharp is having a field day condemning ALL those that hold to dress standards which is something the Apostle Paul never did when it came to vegetarians. Although Paul did cast condemning words on those who taught that others had to be vegetarians because that was their conviction.

Why don't you tell me why I'm wrong, instead of attacking me. Why is it that you guys think I'm attacking you. Is it right to lie to our children? Tell me honestly why you disagree?

You are right about one thing...I am having fun!

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by scotty

Hey , do you know Kristen,,
thats my neighbor, she is atheist.....

that is what she says,

we don't have any kind of salvation, or Holy Ghost

its all just "monkey see , monkey doo"


sorry I can't be nice like diz but , I don't believe your tirade is all that popular nor common...nice try though...

Tell me why Scotty. What have I said is untrue? Is not love the basic need of the human soul which is found in acceptance? If not, tell me why?

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Why don't you tell me why I'm wrong, instead of attacking me. Why is it that you guys think I'm attacking you. Is it right to lie to our children? Tell me honestly why you disagree?

You are right about one thing...I am having fun!

Have at it, I'm out of this one. If your idea of fun is this nonsense, go for it.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm on the other side of the fence concerning standards, Lady Chocolate, but I agree with what you've said and your conviction to dress as you feel pleasing unto God.


Staysharp is having a field day condemning ALL those that hold to dress standards which is something the Apostle Paul never did when it came to vegetarians. Although Paul did cast condemning words on those who taught that others had to be vegetarians because that was their conviction. I believe we can apply this principle to dress standards or any convictions a person may have as long as they don't impose their conviction on others.

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

This is what I have been attempting to say, but you did it much more eloquently!!

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Wow, totally missing and obliterating the point.

#1 The only nerve that was hit was the one that is stretched to its limit by parties from both side of the issue making huge assumptions about hundreds of thousands of people because of the behavior of some. If you had ever bothered to read anything that I have posted, you probably would already know that.

#2 I didn't address the content of the post because the point I was making was ABOUT the messenger. About you, not a group of people you are connected with, because I have never met them, and don't know them.

It was about YOU judging and making assumptions about people who don't believe the same as you do, who you don't even know, grouping an entire segment of society and judging them based on the behavior of some people who you do know.

And if I have to hear one more person tell me about their apostolic pedigree, I will have to just scream. I have one too, it is extensive, I choose not to trot it out every time I want to validate my point. It is irrelevant to the subject. I may met or been around 90% of all conservative apostolics and 90% of all liberal/charismatic apostolics, that still does not give me the right to judge the entire group for the crimes of some of them. In fact, here is a novel thought, I try my hardest not to judge any of them, even the ones I do know. It is enough work keeping my own life and spirit in line with Christ.

#3 You have no idea what I do or don't believe because I do not lay that out on here, for reasons of my own.

Again, why are you attacking me? I haven't attacked anyone. Just making observation across a vast array of Apostolicdom. I am not judging anyone. I am making a human behavioral point. This behavior is wrong and incites fleshly attachment to non salvific behavior which leads to spiritual elitism.

If you don't agree, tell me why? Stop attacking me and judging me. I'm telling you why many children grow up and rebel against the church and abandon their childhood roots.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

Have at it, I'm out of this one. If your idea of fun is this nonsense, go for it.

What's the matter? Did I offend you? Why can't you tell me why I'm wrong. I'm glad you quoted Romans 14. You'll notice, those who are weak in the faith can't eat meat.

Those who have not accepted completely the atoning work of Calvary could not partake of meat which was offered to Idols, even after God told Peter on the rooftop to slay and eat.

When one is fully satisfied in the cross and is trusting Jesus fully for their salvation, their faith is strengthened and eating meat isn't a problem.

You see, keeping unbiblical rules means an individual's faith is weak, not strong. We are not any closer to God by keeping certain standards, we are closer to God by trusting fully in the finished work of the cross.

An individual is welcome to keep whatever rules they like, however, in most typical OP's churches, just let a daughter start wearing pants and see what happens. All hell breaks loose in the home and in the church. The daughter will feel ostracized and castigated for her liberties in Christ.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Why don't you tell me why I'm wrong, instead of attacking me. Why is it that you guys think I'm attacking you. Is it right to lie to our children? Tell me honestly why you disagree?

You are right about one thing...I am having fun!

Staysharp,

I added a little more to my last post to make a point. You may have missed it. Paul did not condemn those who had a conviction not to eat meat EVEN though he personally did not have that same conviction. He did not say the vegetarian who was a vegetarian by faith was in any way adding to salvation or taking away from what Christ did on the cross. If you read Romans 14 you will see that not only did Paul not condemn the person who by faith believed he should not eat meat but Paul was willing not to flaunt his liberty (that he could eat meat) in the face of the person who felt it was wrong to eat meat.

In contrast Paul in 1 Timothy condemns those folks who teach and COMMAND believers not to eat meat. Why Paul's change in heart? Because it is one thing to live in harmony with another believer who has a personal conviction and another to have that conviction imposed upon someone who doesn't feel the same conviction of the Spirit.

The reason I agree with LadyChocolate is because I believe she if following Paul's example in Romans 14. Yes, there are those who follow the example of those who Paul condemned in 1 Tim 4, but they are not representative of ALL apostolics which is the what we are understanding you to say.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Staysharp,

I added a little more to my last post to make a point. You may have missed it. Paul did not condemn those who had a conviction not to eat meat EVEN though he personally did not have that same conviction. He did not say the vegetarian who was a vegetarian by faith was in any way adding to salvation or taking away from what Christ did on the cross. If you read Romans 14 you will see that not only did Paul not condemn the person who by faith believed he should not eat meat but Paul was willing not to flaunt his liberty (that he could eat meat) in the face of the person who felt it was wrong to eat meat.

In contrast Paul in 1 Timothy condemns those folks who teach and COMMAND believers not to eat meat. Why Paul's change in heart? Because it is one thing to live in harmony with another believer who has a personal conviction and another to have that conviction imposed upon someone who doesn't feel the same conviction of the Spirit.

YES...YES....YES



PREACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Again, why are you attacking me? I haven't attacked anyone. Just making observation across a vast array of Apostolicdom. I am not judging anyone. I am making a human behavioral point. This behavior is wrong and incites fleshly attachment to non salvific behavior which leads to spiritual elitism.

If you don't agree, tell me why? Stop attacking me and judging me. I'm telling you why many children grow up and rebel against the church and abandon their childhood roots.

sigh. I'm not attacking YOU, it is what you have posted. I am not disagreeing with the concept of what you are saying, I am disagreeing with how you are applying it.

What you are saying is simply not true of ALL conservative apostolic, so you cannot apply your reasoning across the board. Yes, I have noticed that you have qualified your statements in later posts, but it appears as if you have turned your animosity against "standards" into a mini-religion, and I simply feel that is as wrong as what the people you are condemning are doing.

Anyway, obviously this is some kind of game for you, and you are deriving some perverse pleasure out of it, so I will leave you to it. I never get involved in these discussions unless I am really bothered by the spirits that I see at play in them, so I will have to leave you to the fun, it just isn't for me.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Staysharp,

I added a little more to my last post to make a point. You may have missed it. Paul did not condemn those who had a conviction not to eat meat EVEN though he personally did not have that same conviction. He did not say the vegetarian who was a vegetarian by faith was in any way adding to salvation or taking away from what Christ did on the cross. If you read Romans 14 you will see that not only did Paul not condemn the person who by faith believed he should not eat meat but Paul was willing not to flaunt his liberty (that he could eat meat) in the face of the person who felt it was wrong to eat meat.

In contrast Paul in 1 Timothy condemns those folks who teach and COMMAND believers not to eat meat. Why Paul's change in heart? Because it is one thing to live in harmony with another believer who has a personal conviction and another to have that conviction imposed upon someone who doesn't feel the same conviction of the Spirit.

I totally agree that all should live in harmony. However, sadly this is not the case. The pressure to conform is too strong. I wish it were a perfect world, but tragically it's not. I have no problem with personal convictions, however, these convictions cannot lie to our children. If a child wants to know why, we should tell them why. Not use God as a crutch. We do this because... and tell the truth. Children will appreciate it and then as they grow older be able to properly discern truth. God bless, it was nice talking to you. Thanks