BRO HAYMON!!! Colorado Security Guard' Connection/Apostolic Background!!!

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

This shows that you don't even the guy, Carp. You want pictures? I had lunch with him at an inexpensive cafeteria near CAC. He and his wife arrived in a chauffeured limo, pulled up right to the front door and were escorted from the limo to the line inside of Furr's on South Monaco Street with all off the pomp and circumstance of a state dinner at the White House.

The tenor and direction of your comment was that Brother Haymon regularly travels in a chaufferred limo. This is untrue. It is also untrue that he has "a driver".

Did you investigate as to who owned the car? Who the driver was?

Could it be that a man in his church owns or works for a service and decided to give a day of service to his pastor and the pastor's wife?

What is the implication of your comment? That it is wrong for a man to ride in a limo? What relation does it have to this thread? What is your indictment?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

Again, the web site under discussion does say so much about why the Apostolic movement isn't growing. I believe that our message could be a great benefit to a lot of people (not just eternal benefit, either) and that there are millions of people who would readily accept the Apostle's doctrine. However, we've got so much baggage that we're carrying around that all anybody sees when they look at us is the baggage.

...and some believe all this will be helped if TV is brought into the mix.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

The tenor and direction of your comment was that Brother Haymon regularly travels in a chaufferred limo. This is untrue. It is also untrue that he has "a driver".

Did you investigate as to who owned the car? Who the driver was?

Could it be that a man in his church owns or works for a service and decided to give a day of service to his pastor and the pastor's wife?

What is the implication of your comment? That it is wrong for a man to ride in a limo? What relation does it have to this thread? What is your indictment?

Carp again thanks. I know Elder Haymon not well he was going out of the AMF when I was going in. We have differences but I think he is a gentleman.

[marthaolivia]

It seems that Bro Epley knows a lot about Elder Haymon and he only spoke good of him. I attended CAC in the late 70's when I lived in Denver. They were AMF at the time. I still talk with some people who are in the church. Bro Haymon did leave the AMF when he decided to advertise on TV rather than cause controversy. The home he lives is a dream home, but was bought during the 70's and I'm sure the value has appreciated greatly over the past 25 years. He is much loved by the church congregation and they seem to dote on him. God has really blessed him. I read his book "From my Veranda".. Very interesting and really gives an insight to Elder Haymon. I have never heard anything but "good" about him. Their services are streamed live on Sundays & Wednesdays, and Bro. Betts from NC has been in revival there for a couple of months.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

The tenor and direction of your comment was that Brother Haymon regularly travels in a chaufferred limo. This is untrue. It is also untrue that he has "a driver".

Did you investigate as to who owned the car? Who the driver was?

Could it be that a man in his church owns or works for a service and decided to give a day of service to his pastor and the pastor's wife?

What is the implication of your comment? That it is wrong for a man to ride in a limo? What relation does it have to this thread? What is your indictment?

Just read the website. If you don't see it the way I do, then you and I probably look at many things differently. If you feel a need to defend something that I (and many others!) perceive to be as gratuitous as that, then you've probably got the same problem and will never see past the beam that is in your eye.

I didn't wish to make a long running debate out of the subject of this thread. That's why I ended my first post with a "leave it at that." The longer you defend this in such a shrill manner, the more attention you will draw to the problem and a greater number will be embarrassed by that web site.

Our churches are not growing. The reason is the atmosphere and the culture that is entrenched in our churches. The first step to addressing that is being able to speak openly about the issue. The next step will be when we have the courage to change. Then we will see the revival that God has in store for us.

Or more probably, then our great-grandchildren will see the revival that we could have had.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by marthaolivia

It seems that Bro Epley knows a lot about Elder Haymon and he only spoke good of him. I attended CAC in the late 70's when I lived in Denver. They were AMF at the time. I still talk with some people who are in the church. Bro Haymon did leave the AMF when he decided to advertise on TV rather than cause controversy. The home he lives is a dream home, but was bought during the 70's and I'm sure the value has appreciated greatly over the past 25 years. He is much loved by the church congregation and they seem to dote on him. God has really blessed him. I read his book "From my Veranda".. Very interesting and really gives an insight to Elder Haymon. I have never heard anything but "good" about him. Their services are streamed live on Sundays & Wednesdays, and Bro. Betts from NC has been in revival there for a couple of months.

Elder Haymon's book was very good. He is a gentleman and again I have not been around him our circle of fellowship has been different but he has maintained a good name.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Elder Haymon's book was very good. He is a gentleman and again I have not been around him our circle of fellowship has been different but he has maintained a good name.

Then you've missed meeting one of the nicest and warmest people I've ever met. As I said in an earlier post, I saw him go through what I felt to be an injustice many years ago and he handled the whole thing with class.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Just read the website. If you don't see it the way I do, then you and I probably look at many things differently. If you feel a need to defend something that I (and many others!) perceive to be as gratuitous as that, then you've probably got the same problem and will never see past the beam that is in your eye.

I didn't wish to make a long running debate out of the subject of this thread. That's why I ended my first post with a "leave it at that." The longer you defend this in such a shrill manner, the more attention you will draw to the problem and a greater number will be embarrassed by that web site.

Our churches are not growing. The reason is the atmosphere and the culture that is entrenched in our churches. The first step to addressing that is being able to speak openly about the issue. The next step will be when we have the courage to change. Then we will see the revival that God has in store for us.

Or more probably, then our great-grandchildren will see the revival that we could have had.

Give me a break, first you allow me lattitude to think differently then because I challenge you, you say I have a beam in my eye...and that simply we can accept your word as the last word? I would say you sound like someone else around here but I am not about tossing about insults, and I believe YOU are the one who sees things differently and beyond the pale of reason.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot stand behind your comments with any integrity or intelect. You jumped to a conclusion, several conclusions actually, and none of them were even close to the mark.

I admitted the comments on the website were written in such a manner that could be considered boastful, then I added context to the discussion by saying the person who either wrote it or endorsed it IS a man of God and of the highest integrity. You said what...that Brother Haymon is NOT these things?

What on earth do the remainder of your comments have to do with this discussion?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Carp again thanks. I know Elder Haymon not well he was going out of the AMF when I was going in. We have differences but I think he is a gentleman.

Brother Epley, I completely agree. While I don't think I have ever been close enough to shake Elder Haymon's hand in the 20 years I have known these folks, I DO know Brother Haymon Jr.

I will also say that I do not agree with him on many different issues and topics, and I am sure he would disagree with me adamantly as well. This does not take away from the fact that I give him honor and respect as being a tremendous pastor, a man of integrity, and a man with his heart in the right place.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Give me a break, first you allow me lattitude to think differently then because I challenge you, you say I have a beam in my eye...and that simply we can accept your word as the last word? I would say you sound like someone else around here but I am not about tossing about insults, and I believe YOU are the one who sees things differently and beyond the pale of reason.

The fact of the matter is that you cannot stand behind your comments with any integrity or intelect. You jumped to a conclusion, several conclusions actually, and none of them were even close to the mark.

I admitted the comments on the website were written in such a manner that could be considered boastful, then I added context to the discussion by saying the person who either wrote it or endorsed it IS a man of God and of the highest integrity. You said what...that Brother Haymon is NOT these things?

What on earth do the remainder of your comments have to do with this discussion?

I will give you the last word on this, but first: you have a quote above that is incorrectly ascribed to Jekyll - just a clarification. I'm sure Jekyll would prefer to speak for himself and not have my words put into his mouth.

Also, I never once EVER questioned D.H.'s integrity nor did I even mention that, other than the statement I made about him showing a lot of class during what must have been a tough time.

People are complex. You can't just pin a label on someone and say that because he's "friendly and warm" (like I said of D.H.) and that because he "showed a lot of class" on a particular occassion (like I also said) that he is forever free from being criticized. I said the website seemed presumptuous and gratuitous. It reminded me of an experience that I had with the same guy. Another poster mentioned a similar experience.

You, and others offfered compliments. I say "Amen!" to those compliments. I don't hate the guy because of a couple of funny little gaffs. He's a good man. You may have the last word and I will leave it at that. I wish you well.