Do You Believe In Women Preachers? - Page 117

Truthseeker · #**1161** 02-02-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Paul was setting some boundaries that would help the gospel be more receptive in his day. With the attitude of men in that culture, if he supported women going to the men's side of the church and taking over, how far would that have carried the day?

BTW: Do you sit on the same side of the church as any women, do you have a partition separating the sexes? That was the context of the verse you present, I notice he said "I"do not allow, never attributed that position to God.

1 Cor 14:34-35

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church
KJV

If it's shame for women to speak or ask question in church then surely teaching would be???

crakjak · #**1162** 02-02-2011, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

The Bible is plain: "I do not allow a women to teach, or to excercise authority over a man." This means exactly weaht it says.

So, let me get this straight, Sis. Alvear, can speak and present the gospel to a man on the street, and lead him to salvation? Right?

But the moment his is saved, she must not teach him or guide him in any way?

That is illogical, and Paul never instructed any such thing.

The fact is in Paul's day, Sis. Alvear would not have been in the street speaking to ANY man, for it was forbidden. By the SPIRITUAL leaders, the very ones that Jesus rebuked more than any sinner. Mary washed Jesus feet, I bet that caused a stir??

Sister Alvear · #**1163** 02-02-2011, 10:54 AM

got to go have a house meeting this afternoon...wish you guys were here I would just sit back and listen..

crakjak · #**1164** 02-02-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

1 Cor 14:34-35

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church
KJV

If it's shame for women to speak or ask question in church then surely teaching would be???

It is no longer a shame for a women to speak, we must look at scripture thru the lens of Truth, Culture, and History. If we do so, these verses are understood in the context in which they were presented. There is nothing, in itself, shameful about a women speaking, so it relates to the context.

Under the New Covenant, "...there is NO difference....male or female...", in relation to God. All are precious and valuable, ladies are no longer second class citizens. They never were, except in the eyes of wicked men, yes, the men treated women wickedly in Paul's day.

crakjak · #**1165** 02-02-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

got to go have a house meeting this afternoon...wish you guys were here I would just sit back and listen..

I would gladly listen to you speak, Sister, and amen you as well. LOL
Be blessed, may the Lord continue to show you the paths that He has set before you, and give you the strength to walk in them. May He give you a thousand men filled with the Spirit of the Lord to preach and teach, so that you and Bro. Alvear can teach them, and turn South America and its strongholds of hell upside down!! And so that you can be blessed, and rest some.

Truthseeker · #**1166** 02-02-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

It is no longer a shame for a women to speak, we must look at scripture thru the lens of Truth, Culture, and History. If we do so, these verses are understood in the context in which they were presented. There is nothing, in itself, shameful about a women speaking, so it relates to the context.

Under the New Covenant, "...there is NO difference....male or female...", in relation to God. All are precious and valuable, ladies are no longer second class citizens. They never were, except in the eyes of wicked men, yes, the men treated women wickedly in Paul's day.

He never indicated it's shame because of society or culture just that's a shame. How do you come to the conclusion that's what he meant?

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

I notice he says "commanded to be under obedience"

The setting is "in the churches".

crakjak · #**1167** 02-02-2011, 03:18 PM

Well, it may be a shame for your wife to speak, but my wife is very intelligent, and it would not be a shame for her to speak. She is the executive director of a 501C (3) organization for special needs adults that have aged out of school. She has three men on the board, and three women, and I assure you it is not a shame for her to speak to this board. It may not be a church but it is a Christ-centered operation and HE has shown HIS approval in saving individuals and families that have loved one in the programs.

There was a reason that Paul instructed the early church in this manner, it was a shame in that culture, due only to the circumstances of women, not because of some inherent shame associated with women. Paul back it up with praise for female leaders in the church in other scriptural settings, and declaring that there is NOW no difference. Do men still have responsibility for most lead roles, yes, but only if they are equipped, otherwise it would be a shame for them to teach or speak.

This is my take on the bigger picture of Paul's leadership of the church, you can have whatever take you choose to defend, we both could be wrong, but we are not required to check our brains at the door of the congregation.

Truthseeker · #**1168** 02-02-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

got to go have a house meeting this afternoon...wish you guys were here I would just sit back and listen..

lol

Truthseeker · #**1169** 02-02-2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Well, it may be a shame for your wife to speak, but my wife is very intelligent, and it would not be a shame for her to speak. She is the executive director of a 501C (3) organization for special needs adults that have aged out of school. She has three men on the board, and three women, and I assure you it is not a shame for her to speak to this board. It may not be a church but it is a Christ-centered operation and HE has shown HIS approval in saving individuals and families that have loved one in the programs.

There was a reason that Paul instructed the early church in this manner, it was a shame in that culture, due only to the circumstances of women, not because of some inherent shame associated with women. Paul back it up with praise for female leaders in the church in other scriptural settings, and declaring that there is NOW no difference. Do men still have responsibility for most lead roles, yes, but only if they are equipped, otherwise it would be a shame for them to teach or speak.

This is my take on the bigger picture of Paul's leadership of the church, you can have whatever take you choose to defend, we both could be wrong, but we are not required to check our brains at the door of the congregation.

I asked this earlier:

He never indicated it's shame because of society or culture just that's a shame. How do you come to the conclusion that's what he meant?

Sister Alvear · #**1170** 02-02-2011, 04:44 PM

Am back and guess what today had the blessing of Brother Alvear going with us...wow...things were powerful as we invaded Satan's domain...however it is not often we have that blessing for he has many other things to do...
So today I did not sin Brother Alvear talked, prayed and read the Bible...oh yes I did go give out a few tracts...lol...
Tomorrow will one of you brothers go with me?