Yes, I think we understand each other's interpretation of our pasts, and we have different interpretations about similar experiences. Is that a standstill, or rather a resolution?
I guess I felt it was a standstill because you were saying you felt you had the same experiences as I did, but felt all of them were psychological. I didn't see any offering of further explanation of your views or an expounding on them as to the psychological vs miraculous but simply a repeat of that you felt your experiences were psychological, which is why I said I felt the conversation was at a standstill.
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Sure, people join groups to be around those they have the most in common with. And new joiners often expect affirmation from others. How is that a "concern?"
It is a concern because, just as before, when you joined the UPC and your understandings of the group were inspired by the group and not because you worked them through for yourself, how are you sure the same thing is not happening again as you define yourself as atheist/agnostic?
I have tried to join some groups since leaving church but as soon as I sniff a whiff of demanded "group-think", I am out of there. This means I wish I were more a part of a group but it also means I think for myself. The goal is, of course, to have both. But as you and I both know, many groups do not allow that because they are not open minded. I tried to join an ex-pentecostal group one time and I mentioned that I still speak in tongues and you would have thought I committed some crime. I left because I was not going to be treated like that for being myself. I think Timmy was there, actually, when that happened.
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I get it. I'm not in a group now, but wish I were. I do enjoy the "like minded viewpoints" as presented in some Youtubes, and wish I personally knew some of those people. I also enjoy a well done opposing viewpoint. I've never felt pressure to jump on any bandwagon if I didn't first like the band's music.
I enjoy opposing viewpoints too. As iron sharpeneth iron and all that.
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Me neither, but I *do* try to define everything. I can't imagine a concept being "truth" without it being somehow defined and put through the wringer. I wouldn't be able to communicate "my" truth, nor receive anyone else's truth, until it's defined as much as possible (which basically means described and open for testing.)
I try to define things to a degree. However, I also leave room for faith. I was considering survival of the fittest at one time. Survival of the fittest seems true to some extent, however, it can take a person to a very dark place. It was when I was considering survival of the fittest that I turned around and embraced faith again (very loosely defined, not that I ever let it go completely to begin with) because if people are only out for surviving for themselves, where does love come in? Can love be measured? Is it scientific? Can it be defined? Will we all define it differently? How do you know it exists?
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May your recovery continue to yield results. Sounds like it's working for you.
Yes, thank you. And you as well.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
If I don't do what certain people tell me to do, those people say I will be tortured forever in a pit of fire. But that's not brainwashing. I guess.
If you don't buy into it, and your behavior doesn't change, I don't think it is brainwashing. But if it's successful (such as I presume the linked "Hell House" folks do have some success) then it's not only brainwashing, but in that case, child abuse, imo.
No. And the difference is I really would die if I jumped out of that window.
Furthermore, manipulative coercion, brainwashing, whatever, would probably be appropriate to help someone not jump out a window. There is strong evidence that physical death is real. But for the invisible hell world, the only evidence is the claims of superstitious folklore, or at least that which is indistinguishable from superstitious folklore.
On the other hand, if the window is at ground level......
No. And the difference is I really would die if I jumped out of that window.
Then have you considered that perhaps after you die you will have to answer for your lack of faith?
have you ever seen a radio wave, gravity, or an atom, then how do you know they exist?
Of course you have never seen God, but the universe is bigger than you, so how can you be sure he does not exist? have you visited every corner of the universe and can confidently say there is no God, there is no heaven, there is no hell?
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
Furthermore, manipulative coercion, brainwashing, whatever, would probably be appropriate to help someone not jump out a window. There is strong evidence that physical death is real. But for the invisible hell world, the only evidence is the claims of superstitious folklore, or at least that which is indistinguishable from superstitious folklore.
On the other hand, if the window is at ground level......
I put the whole world, neigh the whole universe as proof that there is a God.
for the universe itself reveals that there is a God.
I put your existence and mind as proof that there is a God. For the things in the universe clearly state that there is a God.
I have written many computer programs, and they are extremely complex, yet they are nowhere near as complicated as a simple flower. It takes my mind and knowledge to create a program and you would have me believe that a simple flower rose through chance? FAT CHANCE.
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**Original Matthew 28:19 Restored**
Then have you considered that perhaps after you die you will have to answer for your lack of faith?
have you ever seen a radio wave, gravity, or an atom, then how do you know they exist?
Of course you have never seen God, but the universe is bigger than you, so how can you be sure he does not exist? have you visited every corner of the universe and can confidently say there is no God, there is no heaven, there is no hell?
Find me a reason to believe in hell. I have never seen one. Ever. I see evidence for gravity every day. I have plenty of reason to believe I would not survive a 40-floor free-fall to the ground. None to believe I will burn forever. None.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Find me a reason to believe in hell. I have never seen one. Ever. I see evidence for gravity every day. I have plenty of reason to believe I would not survive a 40-floor free-fall to the ground. None to believe I will burn forever. None.
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