The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

It goes back to the role of the Holy Spirit as a servant and the means by which God raised up Jesus from the dead. I think you're intelligent enough and know the Bible well enough to know that there is a distinction made between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Indeed there are distinctions between Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Just not some of the distinctions being allided to be some posters.

If we are saying there are 3 persons, with all that entails, then we leave distinctions behind and enter into trintiarian theology. However, if we say distinctions, and realize there is but one God manifest in different ways then we have a good basic understanding fo the Godhead.

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Brett Prince

I believe this approach to explaining a 3-step salvation plan is wrought with folly.

An apple tree has not proven it is truly an apple tree until it bears its fruit.

But, it is folly to declare it NOT an apple tree until it bears fruit, for indeed from the day it was but a foot tall, it was an apple tree. We could not be SURE that it was an apple tree until it bore fruit--and if it WERE an apple tree it WOULD bear apples--but it did NOT BECOME an apple tree when it bore its first apple. It was an apple tree LONG before that.

So, to try to take James and make it say faith is not alive until it has works is slightly off. Faith was alive long before the fruit came forward. We can simply be assured, says James, that if the faith is alive--the works will come.

James is not going to prove a 3-step salvation plan no matter how hard one tries.

Great points. However, they in no wise detract form saying faith is the beginning of the experience, not the end. I can have faith all day long that an apple tree is an apple tree, but with no fruit it has little value as an apple tree. There must be production to prove identity. JMO.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by rrford

Indeed there are distinctions between Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Just not some of the distinctions being allided to be some posters.

If we are saying there are 3 persons, with all that entails, then we leave distinctions behind and enter into trintiarian theology. However, if we say distinctions, and realize there is but one God manifest in different ways then we have a good basic understanding fo the Godhead.

Exactly.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by rrford

Great points. However, they in no wise detract form saying faith is the beginning of the experience, not the end. I can have faith all day long that an apple tree is an apple tree, but with no fruit it has little value as an apple tree. There must be production to prove identity. JMO.

so we must prove our election???

[rrford]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

so we must prove our election???

Not at all. But do not confuse what election really is. Is election individual or corporate as relates to the church?

Careful, wrong answers lead to pre-destination theology.

[Truly Blessed]

Originally Posted by rrford

Indeed there are distinctions between Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Just not some of the distinctions being allided to be some posters.

If we are saying there are 3 persons, with all that entails, then we leave distinctions behind and enter into trintiarian theology. However, if we say distinctions, and realize there is but one God manifest in different ways then we have a good basic understanding fo the Godhead.

I think I have made myself quite clear in one of my posts that I do not believe in three "persons" in the Godhead, but the Bible does teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct one from the other. Only Jesus Christ had a physical body. As I have stated spirit being is the highest existence of any being and although we cannot say the Father is a person, we cannot deny His existence as a spirit being who is distinct from the Son. The greatest testimony we have of this is the Son Himself.

[Mike Williamson]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

You know, I really have a problem with the idea that Jeff Arnold is saying that people are too stuck on the message. He was not saying that the message was invalid, or held lesser priority than in times past. He was simply stating that it is a foundational issue. At some point Christians need to move on, and yet continually add maturity to their walk with God.

To imply that he meant otherwise is quite a stretch.

Exactly. You won't find a preacher who believes the Acts 2:38 message of salvation more than Bro. Arnold...His point is that too often, that's where we stop. We get baptised, get the holy Ghost, learn the rules, and stop developing a relationship with our Father...

How would it be if, once my son were born into our home, he never developed beyond that point? 20 years later I'm still changing his diapers and giving him a bottle?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by rrford

I have a feeling we need to be incredible careful to make the statment "God died" in any form. JMO.

I would not say God died without qualifying it. Even Jesus will admit to dying.

Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Mike Williamson

Exactly. You won't find a preacher who believes the Acts 2:38 message of salvation more than Bro. Arnold...His point is that too often, that's where we stop. We get baptised, get the holy Ghost, learn the rules, and stop developing a relationship with our Father...

How would it be if, once my son were born into our home, he never developed beyond that point? 20 years later I'm still changing his diapers and giving him a bottle?

You may well be right, Brother.

But in a world where so many are looking to compromise the message anyway, it would be good if prominent voices like Brother Arnold wouldn't say things that give fodder to the compromiser's.

His statements along these lines are easily misunderstood, IMO.

There is a way to address this problem without sounding like you are de-valuing the message of the New Birth.

JA has always liked to shock people in order to make them think. that is well and good. But I wish he wouldn't leave things hanging like that the unstable can twist so easily to convince the fence-sitters.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Brett Prince

I believe this approach to explaining a 3-step salvation plan is wrought with folly.

An apple tree has not proven it is truly an apple tree until it bears its fruit.

But, it is folly to declare it NOT an apple tree until it bears fruit, for indeed from the day it was but a foot tall, it was an apple tree. We could not be SURE that it was an apple tree until it bore fruit--and if it WERE an apple tree it WOULD bear apples--but it did NOT BECOME an apple tree when it bore its first apple. It was an apple tree LONG before that.

So, to try to take James and make it say faith is not alive until it has works is slightly off. Faith was alive long before the fruit came forward. We can simply be assured, says James, that if the faith is alive--the works will come.

James is not going to prove a 3-step salvation plan no matter how hard one tries.

Well said, Brett, when we truly study and read the Word with the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit truth prevails, and our biases fall by the wayside.