Preserving the Institution of Marriage

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Rudy

No, not fighting God. You are trying to make this secular world a holy one through law. It cannot happen. Did God save you? Did he not give you authority? Have you walked the line and never sinned since you've been saved? Because someone is appointed by God does not mean they are holy. We (the body of Christ are made perfect through Christ) this is the difference. Political christiananity is trying to make the secular world into the image of Christ through law. God is in control of them. WE are INSTRUCTED ONLY to PRAY FOR THEM. God rules in the kingdom of men and judgement is coming. The appointed authority by God does not mean he has appointed sinnless men and women.

Rudy, last time, please try and read very slowly. The homosexuals are the ones trying to pass the law. Therefore THEY by your argument are fighting against THEIR GOD appointed leaders. No one on this thread but Ultraliberal has said that they wanted to ban it. And even your buddy Ultraliberal states that it is sin. By your logic we should not pass any law. By your logic the penal code should be banned, is not the entire body of criminal law society's attempt at legislated morality. Really, seriously thanks for the sophomoric humor. Ban all laws? That is the only possible outcome to your logic...

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Rudy, last time, please try and read very slowly. The homosexuals are the ones trying to pass the law. Therefore THEY by your argument are fighting against THEIR GOD appointed leaders. No one on this thread but Ultraliberal has said that they wanted to ban it. And even your buddy Ultraliberal states that it is sin. By your logic we should not pass any law. By your logic the penal code should be banned, is not the entire body of criminal law society's attempt at legislated morality. Really, seriously thanks for the sophomoric humor. Ban all laws? That is the only possible outcome to your logic...

God ordained HUMAN goverment. Where did I say to ban all laws? The laws that be are not of my concern. You think it is your responsibility to legislate laws to save mankind.

Is God not in control of human government? Does he make mistakes in his appointments? Did he make a mistake appointing President Clinton? Your argument suggest God is not in control therefore we must intervene.

Who will you vote for if Rudy or Hillary is on the ticket? Tell me who God wants in there?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rudy

God ordained HUMAN goverment. Where did I say to ban all laws? The laws that be are not of my concern. You think it is your responsibility to legislate laws to save mankind.

Is God not in control of human government? Does he make mistakes in his appointments? Did he make a mistake appointing President Clinton? Your argument suggest God is not in control therefore we must intervene.

Who will you vote for if Rudy or Hillary is on the ticket? Tell me who God wants in there?

If God is in control of our human government, and doesn't want our input, why has he allowed people submitted to this "GOD controlled" government to have VOTING RIGHTS? And if one refused to vote, are they refusing to do their responsibility that is given to them by this "GOD controlled" government?

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Rudy

God ordained HUMAN goverment. Where did I say to ban all laws? The laws that be are not of my concern. You think it is your responsibility to legislate laws to save mankind.

Is God not in control of human government? Does he make mistakes in his appointments? Did he make a mistake appointing President Clinton? Your argument suggest God is not in control therefore we must intervene.

Who will you vote for if Rudy or Hillary is on the ticket? Tell me who God wants in there?

Dear Rudy, you stated that we should not attempt to legislate morality therefore you obviously feel we should not have a penal code or any criminal law. Laws are not made for salvation of soul, but they most certainly ARE made for the preservation of culture. "The laws that be" obviously are of your concern because you want to change them to allow same sex marriage.

You are ignoring the reality that it is a homosexual agenda to pass laws to change the status quo. If you truly are of the opinion that "the laws that be are not of my concern" and you feel the laws in place should not be changed then good for you, we all agree.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

The total population of GLB in the USA is only approx. 2%. But for the past 10 years, I have gone to college with them, to church with them, worked with and for them. Most of them are lovely people and my heart goes out to them for all the heartache they have had to endure to get to where they are.

I wish I knew exactly how to minister to them but until God enlightens me, I can only love them and fight their agenda without hating them.

Again, Sincerely, Rhoni

I am praying and trying my best to minister in this area.You have to love and not waver is all.I am loving people and not caring about anything but each individual.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Trouvere

I am praying and trying my best to minister in this area.You have to love and not waver is all.I am loving people and not caring about anything but each individual.

Sis, I admire your position, it is the same position I take. Love does not mean allowing yourself to be stepped on or your rights to be taken away to make those who live in sin more comfortable.

Through the years we have prayed for many an unsaved spouse and the saved spouse did not stay home from church or participate in their sin to win them. They stood firm for what they believed, lived the life in front of them, and stood against sin.

My father was an alcoholic but my mother would not allow him to bring alcohol into our home. There were 5 children there. We prayed for him, lived the life in front of him, and when the drinking got so bad...my mother had to separate herself and us from him and the environment. Before my father died he had stopped drinking and had come to God and was baptized.

I said all that to say...true love from God does not excuse the sin but loves the sinner, prays, and catches them when they fall. It does not say, "It's all right to sin let's make it legal, and while we're at it let's love the GLB by showing them whatever they do is all right with us". In Romans, Paul tells us that the Grace of God does not give us license to sin. But if we sin...we have an advocate with the father through Jesus Christ. Repentence is changing our mind about something and our behavior. This goes for the GLB also.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

What has happened on this thread models what I stated is happening in New Jersey right now:

The topic, title of thread, discussed the legislative work in the State of New Jersey.

A millionaire has contributed $15,000,000.00 to distroy the lives of those in office who would be pro-marriage, not by attacking their stand against legalized Gay & Lesbian marriages/unions [the total population in America of Gays & Lesbians only being approx. 2%], but finding out where they are sensitive and going after them where it hurts.

Originally Posted by UltraLib

Sisiter Rhony, I do not know what it troubling you, but I hope you can find peace and the agape love of God in your life. You sure are wound up tight.

Notice:

UltraLib disrespectfully has spelled my name wrong and alluded to me:
1) not having peave and agape love in my life and,
2) that I am wound up tight.

The intent and meaning of this thread has been overshadowed by Rudy and UltraLib's agenda...and what might that be?

The same can be said for my thread about needing a break to come of my hormone replacement in order to diet. It has pages and pages of defending a Canadian who obviously attacked me and shrouded it in hugs and kisses.

The main thing is never really the main thing now is it?

In God's Grip, Rhoni

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Dear Rudy, you stated that we should not attempt to legislate morality therefore you obviously feel we should not have a penal code or any criminal law. Laws are not made for salvation of soul, but they most certainly ARE made for the preservation of culture. "The laws that be" obviously are of your concern because you want to change them to allow same sex marriage.

You are ignoring the reality that it is a homosexual agenda to pass laws to change the status quo. If you truly are of the opinion that "the laws that be are not of my concern" and you feel the laws in place should not be changed then good for you, we all agree.

It is not that I want to allow same sex marriage. It is that it does not effect God's order concerning the Body of Christ. The world can pass laws all they want. Those in Christ will be just that, in Christ. Political Christianity seeks to intervene without being asked. Political Christianity wants to force itself on non-believers. Political Christianity is in panic thinking "Oh MY" the world is falling apart. Political Christianity denies God is in control of human government. God will end sinful practices on his time table not ours.

Ask yourself this question, can you name just one U.S. president that God did not appoint? You can't and you dare not try. Political Christianity is playing a dangerous role in trying to challenge God's appointments.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Sis, I admire your position, it is the same position I take. Love does not mean allowing yourself to be stepped on or your rights to be taken away to make those who live in sin more comfortable.

Through the years we have prayed for many an unsaved spouse and the saved spouse did not stay home from church or participate in their sin to win them. They stood firm for what they believed, lived the life in front of them, and stood against sin.

My father was an alcoholic but my mother would not allow him to bring alcohol into our home. There were 5 children there. We prayed for him, lived the life in front of him, and when the drinking got so bad...my mother had to separate herself and us from him and the environment. Before my father died he had stopped drinking and had come to God and was baptized.

I said all that to say...true love from God does not excuse the sin but loves the sinner, prays, and catches them when they fall. It does not say, "It's all right to sin let's make it legal, and while we're at it let's love the GLB by showing them whatever they do is all right with us". In Romans, Paul tells us that the Grace of God does not give us license to sin. But if we sin...we have an advocate with the father through Jesus Christ. Repentence is changing our mind about something and our behavior. This goes for the GLB also.

Blessings, Rhoni

What the world makes legal or not legal has no bearing on what Christ expects of those in the Body. You seem to think man-made laws will destroy God's people. Absolutely no where did anyone say "It's alright to sin let's make it legal".

However, what ever the GLB agenda does is not the Church's business period. WE are only to judge those in the Body of Christ. If they ask then we will tell them what God has to say about it. Political Christianity believes in forcing righteousness on unbelievers. What the world does or doesn't do is Our Lords business.. The earth is his foot stool, he's in charge of them.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Rudy

It is not that I want to allow same sex marriage. It is that it does not effect God's order concerning the Body of Christ. The world can pass laws all they want. Those in Christ will be just that, in Christ. Political christiananity seeks to intervene without being asked. Political Christiananity wants to force itself on non-believers. Political Christiananity is in panic thinking "Oh MY" the world is falling apart. Political Christiananity denies God is in control of human government. God will end sinful practices on his time table not ours.

Ask yourself this question, can you name just one U.S. president that God did not appoint? You can't and you dare not try. Political Christiananity is playing a dangerous role in trying to challenge God's appointments.

Christians while not of the world are still in the world. As individual citizens of this country they have a right to influence their own government. Passing laws will not save souls because being a good moral person is not salvation, that only comes through the redemptive blood of Christ. HOWEVER, your comments here have repeatedly suggested that because a citizen happens to be a Christian that they should refuse to have an opinion or take any action in either the workings of government or voting on its body of law. (Which would result in the laws of this country being written without the input by those of Judeo-Christian values)

Just because I have heavenly citizenship does not rob me of my American one . Laws are passed to govern human conduct. Our society has decided that in its best interest it is necessary to govern both certain individual conduct and even conduct between consenting adults ranging from incest to conspiracy to commit tax evasion.

It is remarkable that the ones who protest against a Christian exercising their rights as American citizens have either an overt or hidden agenda to either legalize or decriminalize a behavior that the majority of the citizenry of this republic oppose. As Christians we cannot and should not elevate political movements above our primary mission. But to suggest a Christian should have no say in the civil governance of their country?