1000 year reign

[Sister Alvear]

Brother Blume, please excuse my simple questions but your stand perplexs me. Who or what is causing sin at this point if the devil is bound?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Brother Blume, please excuse my simple questions but your stand perplexs me. Who or what is causing sin at this point if the devil is bound?

Sis,

I can't speak for Bro Blume, but I have followed this enough to kind of get an understanding of what he means.

The devil is bound in the sense that he cannot touch a believer unless the believer allows it. We are called to be not just conquerors, but more than conquerors. Satan was the "strong man" of this earth prior to the coming of Christ. He ruled. But at the death of Christ, his prison was opened and we can freely leave that bondage. Satan no longer has a say in our lives, hence he is bound from bringing us again into captivity. This is all based on the faith of the believer in what God has wrought for us.

I am sure Bro Blume can expound upon this more.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sis,

I can't speak for Bro Blume, but I have followed this enough to kind of get an understanding of what he means.

The devil is bound in the sense that he cannot touch a believer unless the believer allows it. We are called to be not just conquerors, but more than conquerors. Satan was the "strong man" of this earth prior to the coming of Christ. He ruled. But at the death of Christ, his prison was opened and we can freely leave that bondage. Satan no longer has a say in our lives, hence he is bound from bringing us again into captivity. This is all based on the faith of the believer in what God has wrought for us.

I am sure Bro Blume can expound upon this more.

What is the MORE THAN CONQUERORS context?

35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36: As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37: Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39: Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom. 8:35-39

In what way did the believer allow satan to bring these tribulations, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, sword, and death their way?

Being more than a conqueror seems to me is NOT the fact satan cannot touch your life.

It seems more like THAT IN ALL THESE THINGS you refuse to be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

I will say that it is true we can give place to the devil. Sin, unbelief, errors in judgment can all open the door to the enemy. But other than that the believer is more at the mercy of what JESUS allows than what HE allows.

If we are abiding in Christ and walking in his will the devil cannot touch us EXCEPT for what the Lord may allow for our growth and perfection TO TEACH US TO OVERCOME.

The bondage the devil brings is sin, diseases, confusion and all manner of strife. Living in the spirit will break most of those bondages of course.

BUT AGAIN THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS GOVERNING NATIONS AT ALL.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Brother Blume, please excuse my simple questions but your stand perplexs me. Who or what is causing sin at this point if the devil is bound?

I do not think you read my note carefully enough. The question is first, did Jesus bind the devil or not? Since Col 2 says Jesus spoiled the devil, and Jesus said you cannot do that unless you first bind him, then did Jesus bind the devil or not?

It is easy to have preconceived ideas and not really realize it. So we have to work from what the scriptures do say and then let all the implicaitons fall into place form there. And the scriptures do say:

1) You cannot spoil a strong man until you first bind him.

2) Jesus spoiled the devil.

Since these two facts above are true, and have occurred, we must then allow our thoughts to line up with those facts.

Can you see my point?

Michael the Disciple, please answer this as well. NO FUTURIST HAS YET ANSWERED THIS.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hey bro. if you do not believe Jesus bound the devil, then you do not believe He spoiled princpailites and powers as the bible explicitly says He did!



We study Revelation by looking to the rest of the bible and finding the key points and realizing God's Word is meant to be ONE GREAT BOOK. Since Jesus, Himself, said you cannot SPOIL an enemy until YOUR FIRST BIND HIM, then if COl says JESUS SPOILED the devil, that means HE BOUND THE DEVIL.

HOW MANY TIMES MUST THE LORD BIND THE DEVIL?

Capiche?

Hi Michael,

Consider this:

12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col. 2:12-15

How in this case were the principalities and powers spoiled?

Was it not that all their work in causing men to sin was in vain? SPOILED? Here they spent time deceiving and tempting men and now Yeshua takes all the sins commited against the law and even the law itself to the cross with him! HE DIED FOR US. We will not have to die the second death after all!

That is how they were spoiled. That was ONE BATTLE out of a great WAR which was to follow.

In no way does that follow through that the devil was completely stripped of his power for all time THEN. Many things in scripture could prove this error but I will use this. If satan lost all power why does he have power to give to the beast to overcome the saints??

4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil gave the beast this power. He kills many saints. How is this if he has no power? There is obviously a war going on. The war is not over. The devil still is an enemy.

The Saints overcome but HOW?

7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Notice the devil comes down. The way saints overcome is the blood of the lamb the word of their testimony AND they loved not their lives UNTO THE DEATH.

So the devil has power to cause Saints to be put to death in this life. But the Saints who hold fast to their faith ARE VICTORIOUS ALTHOUGH SLAIN BY satan.

So IN THIS LIFE the Church age, satan still has power. But we overcome his power by faith in Christ. At times we are the overcomers though in the natural it seems like he is.

When Jesus told this to the Saints in Smyrna:

8: And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev. 2:8-11

Note verse 10. Should the Saints have said "Not so Lord!" The devil is bound and he will NOT cast us into prison!

No. The Lord told them how to overcome. Fear not what satan will do. Even if he kills you. Because HE PROMISES if they are faithful to him he will GIVE THEM A CROWN OF LIFE!

Is the devil bound NOW? In this sense that he can only do what the Lord will allow him to do.

13: There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 1 Cor. 10:13

So Jesus will not allow us to be put through something we cannot bear.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Michael,

Consider this:

12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col. 2:12-15

How in this case were the principalities and powers spoiled?

Was it not that all their work in causing men to sin was in vain? SPOILED? Here they spent time deceiving and tempting men and now Yeshua takes all the sins commited against the law and even the law itself to the cross with him! HE DIED FOR US. We will not have to die the second death after all!

The point is that Jesus SPOILED them. And He, Himself, said you cannot do that until your first bind them. So, while you see that binding in this sense does not limit them from being able to do anything. Binding the devil was in certain areas alone. But the bible still says the devil was spoiled, and therefore, bound. So, why do we read BIND in Rev 20 and assume it is a binding differently than the case above, as though BINDING must always mean limitation from doing ANYTHING?

You just proved that BINDING can be in reference to many things, while other things are not dealt with in the binding.

But the truth of the SPOILING is shown when you read the greek rendition. Making an open show of the devil literally means to MAKE AN EXHIBIT of the devil and put him to PUBLIC shame. It's from the picture of taking a conquered king and chaining and stripping him, and then pulling him along the main concourse of the conquering king's City before the entire people!

Binding does not always mean removing all ability. You chain a dog up and bind him, say, 7 feet from a tree, and the dog can do only so much within that area. However, he is far more restricted than he was before the binding. But he is BOUND.

The term "BOUNDARIES" comes from the term BOUND or BIND. Boundaries show the limits of what the one who is bound can and cannot do. But it does not mean ALL POWER is removed. Jesus left the devil with SO MUCH POWER so as to exercise us in dealing with him. But the DEVIL IS DEFEATED AND BOUND!

Similarly, Rev 20 mentions only one issue in which the devil is bound. Namely, binding to prohibit him from gathering the nations against the Holy City (the church) by deception. Nothing is said about the devil being able to incite crime, murder, drug dealing, rape, etc., AFTER THE DEVIL IS LOOSED as though the devil could not incite that during the binding.

I pointed out that the binding of the devil was done by the cross, and before the cross one had to actually go to Israel in order to get light of God. The devil held all the nations. But since Jesus and the cross, demons are now cast out, and we go into nations and bring the light and have revival ANYWHERE. That is vastly different from the time before the cross.

That is how they were spoiled. That was ONE BATTLE out of a great WAR which was to follow.

NO NO NO . Jesus WON THE WAR ALREADY! He sat down forever having CONQUERED and FOUGHT anything he had to fight and conquer. You have it backwards. The war was already won. It's the battles we experience after the fact, today. And they are only battles OF OUR FAITH. Sin is defeated. Satan is defeated. We only FIGHT THE FIGHT OF FAITH now.

Nevertheless, the bible says the devil was BOUND if he was spoiled. And that happened at the cross.

In no way does that follow through that the devil was completely stripped of his power for all time THEN.

Whoever said the devil is completely stripped of his power in Rev 20???? People ASSUME that, but the text does not say that. In fact, the text says the devil was only bound so as to be unable to deceive the nations TO PARTICULARLY GATHER THEM AGAINST THE HOLY CITY (THE CHURCH).

Many things in scripture could prove this error but I will use this. If satan lost all power why does he have power to give to the beast to overcome the saints??

Who said satan lost all his power???? See? This is my point. Everyone assumes binding means all power is removed. But you proved, yourself, that binding in Col 2 does not mean all satanic power is removed.

4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil gave the beast this power. He kills many saints. How is this if he has no power? There is obviously a war going on. The war is not over. The devil still is an enemy.

Who said he has no power? Where does Rev 20 say the devil has NO POWER when he is bound? You proved yourself that is not the case with the binding of Col 2.

The rest of your post is moot, since you are assuming bondage means no power remains, when you proved that is not the case in Col 2.

You see, you and so many others have only read to Rev 20:3 and stopped reading! You saw, "that he should deceive the nations no more" in lieu of the devil's binding. You jumped to the conclusion that this meant the devil has NO POWER. And so when you read us tell you that binding is NOW, you revert to your assumption, and respond saying, "That cannot be true, because the devil has power now." Had you continued READING past verse 3, you would read that the nature of the binding and deception is ONLY REVEALED in verse 8 where we read the details and EXPLANATION Of the deception. He was loosed to DECEIVE THE NATIONS as he had been before the binding. BUT THE DECEPTION IS REESTRICTED TO DECEPTION IN GATHERING THE NATIONS AGAINST THE HOLY CITY. Again... Nothing is said about the devil being loosed to "incite crime, murder, drug dealing, rape, etc.," as though the devil could not incite that during the binding.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi Michael,

Consider this:

12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Col. 2:12-15

How in this case were the principalities and powers spoiled?

Was it not that all their work in causing men to sin was in vain? SPOILED? Here they spent time deceiving and tempting men and now Yeshua takes all the sins commited against the law and even the law itself to the cross with him! HE DIED FOR US. We will not have to die the second death after all!

That is how they were spoiled. That was ONE BATTLE out of a great WAR which was to follow.

In no way does that follow through that the devil was completely stripped of his power for all time THEN. Many things in scripture could prove this error but I will use this. If satan lost all power why does he have power to give to the beast to overcome the saints??

4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

The devil gave the beast this power. He kills many saints. How is this if he has no power? There is obviously a war going on. The war is not over. The devil still is an enemy.

The Saints overcome but HOW?

7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Notice the devil comes down. The way saints overcome is the blood of the lamb the word of their testimony AND they loved not their lives UNTO THE DEATH.

So the devil has power to cause Saints to be put to death in this life. But the Saints who hold fast to their faith ARE VICTORIOUS ALTHOUGH SLAIN BY satan.

So IN THIS LIFE the Church age, satan still has power. But we overcome his power by faith in Christ. At times we are the overcomers though in the natural it seems like he is.

When Jesus told this to the Saints in Smyrna:

8: And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10: Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Rev. 2:8-11

Note verse 10. Should the Saints have said "Not so Lord!" The devil is bound and he will NOT cast us into prison!

No. The Lord told them how to overcome. Fear not what satan will do. Even if he kills you. Because HE PROMISES if they are faithful to him he will GIVE THEM A CROWN OF LIFE!

Is the devil bound NOW? In this sense that he can only do what the Lord will allow him to do.

13: There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. 1 Cor. 10:13

So Jesus will not allow us to be put through something we cannot bear.

Good point Micheal Elder Blume has a prewritten page ready I promise you. He might not be correct but he is prepared.

[stmatthew]

A good question would be "Does the devil have dominion over the believer?"

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

A good question would be "Does the devil have dominion over the believer?"

Yes but the question AT HAND is does the Bible teach there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ and the Saints on Earth.

Amazingly the answer is right before us in scripture!

1: And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2: And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3: And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

There it is. To believe or reject.

[Sister Alvear]

I plan to be a part of it!