Is suicide a sin? - Page 11

shazeep · #**101** 04-09-2015, 02:51 PM

ah, well i know nothing about ptsd; except that it, too, is ultimately self-inflicted, wadr. That covers like 1% of the depression spectrum; or maybe 10%. Depression i know about. Ok, and quiet, gentle breezes, etc are all obtainable--Baja CA is more or less deserted, etc. I certainly hope your testimony might give someone else thinking of "serving" pause.

Aquila · #**102** 04-09-2015, 03:07 PM

And we judge them. A soldier commits suicide every 65 minutes. You want to threaten us with hell? LOL! We're already there. When someone really gets to the point of being willing to die by their own hand... Hell doesn't scare them. They are already there. There is the sense of, "Okay, then let's just get this over with!"

Only hope, love, peace, assurance, healing, grace, understanding, truth, understanding, friendship, rest, quiet... and did I mention understanding?... can help them.

And you think a loving God would dump a person so tormented and afflicted into a burning Hell forever??? That's not a God of love and understanding. That's not even a God of hope. Have you ever sat down and talked with the wife or family of a person who committed suicide after suffering from clinical depression or PTSD? I assure you, it's a horrible tragedy. However, we know the science and the reason behind it. We know the desperation and torment. And any God who knows all will know that these people are broken... not selfish. In fact... their "self" is gone. They've lost who and what they are and desire to be to the point where closing the book seems like the only way to make the horror stop.

If God can't have love and mercy towards these... how could he ever have love and mercy towards those not so broken???

Aquila · #**103** 04-09-2015, 03:10 PM

Suicide isn't a "sin". It's a horrendous tragedy.

Aquila · #**104** 04-09-2015, 03:10 PM

There is only one unforgiveable sin. Let's keep that in perspective.

thephnxman · #**105** 04-09-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

There is only one unforgiveable sin. Let's keep that in perspective.

"All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

So is suicide NOT a "sin unto death": or is it? If a person has received the Holy Spirit,
but listens instead to the voice of deceit: is that NOT unto death? Or is suicide operating
out of the realm of grace?

"My grace is sufficient to thee: for my strength is mad perfect in weakness."

Aquila · #**106** 04-09-2015, 04:05 PM

Very good article...

The 'Easy' Cure for PTSD? The Cruelty of Shallow Religious Answers
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rita-n...b_4292370.html

Aquila · #**107** 04-09-2015, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

"All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

So is suicide NOT a "sin unto death": or is it? If a person has received the Holy Spirit,
but listens instead to the voice of deceit: is that NOT unto death? Or is suicide operating
out of the realm of grace?

"My grace is sufficient to thee: for my strength is mad perfect in weakness."

We know that there are sins forgiven in this life. And yes, others are forgiven in the world to come (the Resurrection/Millennium). But blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

It would make no sense to argue that the blasphemy wouldn't be forgiven in the "world to come" of all sin were unforgiveable in the world to come anyway.

thephnxman · #**108** 04-09-2015, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

We know that there are sins forgiven in this life. And yes, others are forgiven in the world to come (the Resurrection/Millennium). But blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

It would make no sense to argue that the blasphemy wouldn't be forgiven in the "world to come" of all sin were unforgiveable in the world to come anyway.

Made no mention of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, nor world to come.

If Grace (the Holy Spirit) is sufficient, then would a person be ignorant and/or
culpable of resisting the Holy Spirit?

As in the Garden, there are still only two voices vying for our attention!

shazeep · #**109** 04-09-2015, 05:59 PM

at the end of the day, yup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

And we judge them. A soldier commits suicide every 65 minutes. You want to threaten us with hell? LOL! We're already there. When someone really gets to the point of being willing to die by their own hand... Hell doesn't scare them. They are already there. There is the sense of, "Okay, then let's just get this over with!"

Only hope, love, peace, assurance, healing, grace, understanding, truth, understanding, friendship, rest, quiet... and did I mention understanding?... can help them.

And you think a loving God would dump a person so tormented and afflicted into a burning Hell forever??? That's not a God of love and understanding. That's not even a God of hope. Have you ever sat down and talked with the wife or family of a person who committed suicide after suffering from clinical depression or PTSD? I assure you, it's a horrible tragedy. However, we know the science and the reason behind it. We know the desperation and torment. And any God who knows all will know that these people are broken... not selfish. In fact... their "self" is gone. They've lost who and what they are and desire to be to the point where closing the book seems like the only way to make the horror stop.

If God can't have love and mercy towards these... how could he ever have love and mercy towards those not so broken???

i would not presume to say that, no

Aquila · #**110** 04-10-2015, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Made no mention of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, nor world to come.

If Grace (the Holy Spirit) is sufficient, then would a person be ignorant and/or
culpable of resisting the Holy Spirit?

As in the Garden, there are still only two voices vying for our attention!

Mental illness doesn't work that way thephnxman. Mental illness doesn't "vie" for your attention. It takes it, in most cases, against your will. The church has a terrible track record when it comes to understanding and ministering to those who suffer from mental illness. I often contemplate this text...

Hebrews 4:12 English Standard Version (ESV)
12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

There is a discernment to be made between the "thoughts" and the "intentions" of one's heart. Contemplate this with me today. One's "thoughts" and one's "intentions" can be two entirely different thing. The Bible equips us to properly draw this distinction. A manic episode wherein intrusive thoughts invade the mind might provoke someone to act in a manner or to do something that would never have been their heart's true intention.