Harold Hoffman attacks Jim Kilgore

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Reader

CC1, I answered that in post 92

Thanks, I missed that when reading through the thread.

[houstonupci]

As a member of Life Church (Tabernacle), there are a few things I would like to add to this thread.

1) Someone posted early in the thread about HH "revealing" a strained relationship between elder JK and current pastor JK. A few months prior to elder JK passing away, he got up in front of the entire church and stated for the record that he stood behind his son and Life Church. I have personally seen the interactions between elder JK and his three children, and I can say that there was nothing "strained" about their relationship.

2) As for Life Tabernacle and missions. To my knowledge, the church no longer gives to missions through the UPCI organization, but the church still supports missions in a big way. In fact, missionary Tony Miller from Lithuania is speaking THIS SUNDAY. Aside from giving to missionaries, the church recently built an orphanage in the Phillipines and currently houses almost 40 children. If that isn't missions, I don't know what is.

3) There have been a LOT of rumors floating around about Life Church over the past few years, and I would like to address them. JK still teaches baptism in Jesus Name, JK still teaches that unbelievers MUST be filled with the Spirit, JK still teaches that the evidence of receiving the Spirit is speaking with other tongues. If you were to visit our church, you would see a lot of different people that don't necessarily look like you would expect "holy" Christians would look. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NEW. Throughout 2014, Life Church added at least 300 new members. While some former traditionalist members were running for the hills to stricter churches, we were reaching out into our community and creating a MASSIVE network of Bible studies. We currently have HUNDREDS of unchurched people attending Bible studies in homes across the greater Houston area. The church's message has changed from religion and tradition to one of relationship with Christ and reaching the lost.

I can personally testify that my relationship with God and my knowledge of scripture has grown SO much since I've been a member of Life Church. I spend the first 20+ years of my life in a traditional UPC church. I was constantly told what to believe and not to question what I was taught. Being pastored with an open hand of love as opposed to an iron fist of condemnation has drastically changed my life.

I truly cannot picture Christ saying anything near those words of hate that came out of HH's mouth. Elder JK was a man of grace and dignity. He was not one to grovel at someone's feet with "mucous" pouring out of his nose. I call "FALSE" on HH's statement.

Also, for the record, JK is a grown man over 50 years old. No one calls him Jimbo. Not even his closet friends. It's disrespectful.

[Aquila]

The "thuggish" and brute attitude of so many "men of God" in the UPCI is one reason why I left.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

As a member of Life Church (Tabernacle), there are a few things I would like to add to this thread.

1) Someone posted early in the thread about HH "revealing" a strained relationship between elder JK and current pastor JK. A few months prior to elder JK passing away, he got up in front of the entire church and stated for the record that he stood behind his son and Life Church. I have personally seen the interactions between elder JK and his three children, and I can say that there was nothing "strained" about their relationship.

2) As for Life Tabernacle and missions. To my knowledge, the church no longer gives to missions through the UPCI organization, but the church still supports missions in a big way. In fact, missionary Tony Miller from Lithuania is speaking THIS SUNDAY. Aside from giving to missionaries, the church recently built an orphanage in the Phillipines and currently houses almost 40 children. If that isn't missions, I don't know what is.

3) There have been a LOT of rumors floating around about Life Church over the past few years, and I would like to address them. JK still teaches baptism in Jesus Name, JK still teaches that unbelievers MUST be filled with the Spirit, JK still teaches that the evidence of receiving the Spirit is speaking with other tongues. If you were to visit our church, you would see a lot of different people that don't necessarily look like you would expect "holy" Christians would look. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NEW. Throughout 2014, Life Church added at least 300 new members. While some former traditionalist members were running for the hills to stricter churches, we were reaching out into our community and creating a MASSIVE network of Bible studies. We currently have HUNDREDS of unchurched people attending Bible studies in homes across the greater Houston area. The church's message has changed from religion and tradition to one of relationship with Christ and reaching the lost.

I can personally testify that my relationship with God and my knowledge of scripture has grown SO much since I've been a member of Life Church. I spend the first 20+ years of my life in a traditional UPC church. I was constantly told what to believe and not to question what I was taught. Being pastored with an open hand of love as opposed to an iron fist of condemnation has drastically changed my life.

I truly cannot picture Christ saying anything near those words of hate that came out of HH's mouth. Elder JK was a man of grace and dignity. He was not one to grovel at someone's feet with "mucous" pouring out of his nose. I call "FALSE" on HH's statement.

Also, for the record, JK is a grown man over 50 years old. No one calls him Jimbo. Not even his closet friends. It's disrespectful.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

As a member of Life Church (Tabernacle), there are a few things I would like to add to this thread.

1) Someone posted early in the thread about HH "revealing" a strained relationship between elder JK and current pastor JK. A few months prior to elder JK passing away, he got up in front of the entire church and stated for the record that he stood behind his son and Life Church. I have personally seen the interactions between elder JK and his three children, and I can say that there was nothing "strained" about their relationship.

2) As for Life Tabernacle and missions. To my knowledge, the church no longer gives to missions through the UPCI organization, but the church still supports missions in a big way. In fact, missionary Tony Miller from Lithuania is speaking THIS SUNDAY. Aside from giving to missionaries, the church recently built an orphanage in the Phillipines and currently houses almost 40 children. If that isn't missions, I don't know what is.

3) There have been a LOT of rumors floating around about Life Church over the past few years, and I would like to address them. JK still teaches baptism in Jesus Name, JK still teaches that unbelievers MUST be filled with the Spirit, JK still teaches that the evidence of receiving the Spirit is speaking with other tongues. If you were to visit our church, you would see a lot of different people that don't necessarily look like you would expect "holy" Christians would look. Why is that? BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL NEW. Throughout 2014, Life Church added at least 300 new members. While some former traditionalist members were running for the hills to stricter churches, we were reaching out into our community and creating a MASSIVE network of Bible studies. We currently have HUNDREDS of unchurched people attending Bible studies in homes across the greater Houston area. The church's message has changed from religion and tradition to one of relationship with Christ and reaching the lost.

I can personally testify that my relationship with God and my knowledge of scripture has grown SO much since I've been a member of Life Church. I spend the first 20+ years of my life in a traditional UPC church. I was constantly told what to believe and not to question what I was taught. Being pastored with an open hand of love as opposed to an iron fist of condemnation has drastically changed my life.

I truly cannot picture Christ saying anything near those words of hate that came out of HH's mouth. Elder JK was a man of grace and dignity. He was not one to grovel at someone's feet with "mucous" pouring out of his nose. I call "FALSE" on HH's statement.

Also, for the record, JK is a grown man over 50 years old. No one calls him Jimbo. Not even his closet friends. It's disrespectful.

I appreciate this post from a church member but have to question you on one thing. You seem to suggest that JK and the church are still holding on to the clothesline legalism of the UPC, that the reason the church looks different is just because there are so many new members. This suggests you think that JK will still preach and uphold the clothesline standards of the UPC and that over time these new saints will "line up"with the women giving up wearing makeup, cutting their hair, jewelry, pants, etc. Can you confirm this is what you were inferring? If so I think you are very, very wrong in that regard. Those "standards" are not biblical and cannot be justified and I don't think JK will do so.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by CC1

I appreciate this post from a church member but have to question you on one thing. You seem to suggest that JK and the church are still holding on to the clothesline legalism of the UPC, that the reason the church looks different is just because there are so many new members. This suggests you think that JK will still preach and uphold the clothesline standards of the UPC and that over time these new saints will "line up"with the women giving up wearing makeup, cutting their hair, jewelry, pants, etc. Can you confirm this is what you were inferring? If so I think you are very, very wrong in that regard. Those "standards" are not biblical and cannot be justified and I don't think JK will do so.

The standards are Biblical but they are not holding them up. like young Kilgore but he ain't preaching what his Dad did.

[houstonupci]

Originally Posted by CC1

I appreciate this post from a church member but have to question you on one thing. You seem to suggest that JK and the church are still holding on to the clothesline legalism of the UPC, that the reason the church looks different is just because there are so many new members. This suggests you think that JK will still preach and uphold the clothesline standards of the UPC and that over time these new saints will "line up"with the women giving up wearing makeup, cutting their hair, jewelry, pants, etc. Can you confirm this is what you were inferring? If so I think you are very, very wrong in that regard. Those "standards" are not biblical and cannot be justified and I don't think JK will do so.

JK teaches biblical principles like modesty but not man-made UPCI-specific standards such as only skirts, uncut hair, no makeup, etc.

I shudder just typing those words. Those issues just seem so petty and pale in comparison when you consider the sheer number of lost souls out there just waiting to hear that there's a God that loves them and that they can have abundant life through Jesus Christ!

[houstonupci]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The standards are Biblical but they are not holding them up. like young Kilgore but he ain't preaching what his Dad did.

I'll just repeat what I said prior, which is that JK teaches Biblical principles of modesty and holy living.

I don't know how well you knew elder JK, but I have heard him preach MANY times, and I can say without hesitation that JK preaches the EXACT SAME message as elder JK did. I would also like to know how many messages you've heard the younger JK teach in the past 5-10 years. My guess would be that it's not enough to make any sort of hypothesis about his doctrine or beliefs.

Like I said in my initial post, elder JK stood in front of our church congregation a few months before he passed and said "I stand behind this church" and "I stand behind my son." In my opinion, that completely ends this discussion.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

I'll just repeat what I said prior, which is that JK teaches Biblical principles of modesty and holy living.

I don't know how well you knew elder JK, but I have heard him preach MANY times, and I can say without hesitation that JK preaches the EXACT SAME message as elder JK did. I would also like to know how many messages you've heard the younger JK teach in the past 5-10 years. My guess would be that it's not enough to make any sort of hypothesis about his doctrine or beliefs.

Like I said in my initial post, elder JK stood in front of our church congregation a few months before he passed and said "I stand behind this church" and "I stand behind my son." In my opinion, that completely ends this discussion.

Elder Kilgore preached against women cutting their hair, makeup, etc. you know he did. Do they are NOT preaching the same.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by houstonupci

JK teaches biblical principles like modesty but not man-made UPCI-specific standards such as only skirts, uncut hair, no makeup, etc.

I shudder just typing those words. Those issues just seem so petty and pale in comparison when you consider the sheer number of lost souls out there just waiting to hear that there's a God that loves them and that they can have abundant life through Jesus Christ!

Elder Kilgore preached all these UPCI standards as you called them and argued FOR the affirmation statement which includes all of these. Younger Kilgore says Jn. 3:5 is not water baptism. The exact opposite his Dad taught.