Universal Salvation

[mizpeh]

God is just in all his dealings with mankind and He is no respecter of persons.
God has power over the clay, to make each one of us as He sees fit yet He doesn't contradict his own righteous nature. On judgement day no one will be able to call God unfair or say that He showed preferential treatment to one over another. I believe God does what he does according to his foreknowledge of how we will react or respond to His advances to save us.

I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

...and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

I don't have all the answers but God is just. He is not picking and choosing aribitrarily who and who will not be saved.



So back to your question ....can any resist God's will? Yes and no.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Truth is, that I have looked at it. Not in depth. It doesn't really take me long to spot a fake. I'm not referring to you, but the doctrine itself. I am only stating my own observations, not those of others. I had someone recently tell me that they found something NEW in the Bible......it was UR. It's NOT new and it is NOT easily seen in the Bible, which is the first sign of something not being right.

As far as I know, it is NEVER dominated the church's theology or thinking. It has NEVER taken a strong hold or found preeminence. That says something to me and it should to others as well.

Truth is that the doctrine of endless torment was not the doctrine of the church until the fifth century. It is new only to those who have been completely indoctrinated by the manipulation and fear of the Roman church. Jesus never threatens the traditional view of hell, neither does the apostle called to the Gentiles. My earliest exposure to UR has been writings from the 17th and 18th centuries.

BTW seems the OP view was not the common view throughout history either, became into view say about 1916, and for many folks it is not easily seen in scripture.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Barb

Haven't read this whole thread, but rspectfully, CJ...this sounds like the same old Inclusive/Universalist doctrine Carlton Pearson and others have been spouting.

Barb,
Your are the fourth or fifth poster to make a similar statement. As I shared with MOW, my earliest exposure to UR has been writings in Old English from the 17th and 18th centuries. I am not that familiar with CP or his beliefs.

O, BTW this old hellhole doctrine of endless torment is that same old Dante's Inferno and the fear that the RCC used during the Middle Ages to scare and control the masses and the ignorant. So why does the church that has rejected most of the teaching of the RCC church hold on to its most diabolical doctrine the castigates the character of our Heavenly Father?

How can an all powerful, all loving, and all knowing God continue to allow human beings to come into the world knowing that the vast majority will be sent to endless torment for billions of years without hope. Sorry, I don't believe we have rightly divided the Word of Truth in this area.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
KJV

Col 1:20

20 And God purposed that through ( by the service, the intervention of) Him [the Son] all things should be completely reconciled back to Himself, whether on earth or in heaven, as through Him, [the Father] made peace by means of the blood of His cross.
AMP



What does "ALL THINGS" mean when refering to being reconciled to himself?



2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
KJV




Does this mean if he's "not imputing their trespasses unto them"



If God didn't reconcile the world unto himself, does it mean he failed?




John said "
John 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world
KJV




"taketh away the sin of the world" ?????

Finally someone who will at least acknowledge that there could be a problem with the traditional view. Seems most are totally blind to the scripture.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When there is no way for a person to ever pay it back, which I think is the emphasis, then the idea is forever. But the greater point, which I noted, was that the person has to pay back, and not the master through any forgiveness. Blood of Jesus can only be applied through God's forgiveness. No other way.

The blood of Jesus has a blanket application to the human race, just as Adam's sin was applied as a blanket to the human race. The scripture clearly presents these facts. All are reconciled to God because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross. This is legal justification, then there is relational forgiveness that must be accomplished by faith in each individual, in order for the individual to walk in their own salvation. As in "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." You were your wife's legal husband when you married her, yet the relational fact had to be worked out, in order for you to truly be her husband.

We are all reconciled, yet many are not yet relational with God.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Barb,
Your are the fourth or fifth poster to make a similar statement. As I shared with MOW, my earliest exposure to UR has been writings in Old English from the 17th and 18th centuries. I am not that familiar with CP or his beliefs.

O, BTW this old hellhole doctrine of endless torment is that same old Dante's Inferno and the fear that the RCC used during the Middle Ages to scare and control the masses and the ignorant. So why does the church that has rejected most of the teaching of the RCC church hold on to its most diabolical doctrine the castigates the character of our Heavenly Father?

How can an all powerful, all loving, and all knowing God continue to allow human beings to come into the world knowing that the vast majority will be sent to endless torment for billions of years without hope. Sorry, I don't believe we have rightly divided the Word of Truth in this area.

Sorry...as I said, I haven't read all of this thread. CP teaches what you are saying, and even has said that if the devil will repent, he will be saved, too.

To answer your question, "How can an all powerful, all loving, and all knowing God continue to allow human beings to come into the world knowing that the vast majority will be sent to endless torment for billions of years without hope?"

It is not His will that any perish. Because of the wickedness of mankind, folks will send their own selves to hell...this is not God's doing.

He paid the price so that we might escape the judgment...it is our choice.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Barb

Sorry...as I said, I haven't read all of this thread. CP teaches what you are saying, and even has said that if the devil will repent, he will be saved, too.

To answer your question, "How can an all powerful, all loving, and all knowing God continue to allow human beings to come into the world knowing that the vast majority will be sent to endless torment for billions of years without hope?"

It is not His will that any perish. Because of the wickedness of mankind, folks will send their own selves to hell...this is not God's doing.

He paid the price so that we might escape the judgment...it is our choice.

What sane individual would knowingly make that choice? Please, post any scripture that says man has freewill.

Rather the scripture says, (Romans 9.16) "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

[Barb]

Originally Posted by crakjak

What sane individual would knowingly make that choice? Please, post any scripture that says man has freewill.

Rather the scripture says, (Romans 9.16) "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

Precisely...what sane individual would choose hellfire over eternity in glory?!

Yet, man makes this choice every day when they willingly and willfully sin.

If we didn't have a choice in the matter, it wouldn't make sense...we would be nothing more than puppets, living any way we desired because it didn't matter...we'd make it in anyway.

Well, listen to the Word...

"Depart from me, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41).

"For the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23).

"This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14, 15).

This is from Truth Shall Triumph...

"Hell was never prepared for man. God made it for the devil and his followers. God has done everything He can to stop man from going to this dreadful place. The cross of Calvary is a roadblock, stopping man from his slide down into a lost eternity. Christ died to stop men and women from going there. If man wilfully chooses to be a follower of satan, he definitely will be with satan throughout eternity."

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Barb

Precisely...what sane individual would choose hellfire over eternity in glory?!

Yet, man makes this choice every day when they willingly and willfully sin.

If we didn't have a choice in the matter, it wouldn't make sense...we would be nothing more than puppets, living any way we desired because it didn't matter...we'd make it in anyway.

Well, listen to the Word...

"Depart from me, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41).

"For the wages of sin is death" (Rom. 6:23).

"This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14, 15).

This is from Truth Shall Triumph...

"Hell was never prepared for man. God made it for the devil and his followers. God has done everything He can to stop man from going to this dreadful place. The cross of Calvary is a roadblock, stopping man from his slide down into a lost eternity. Christ died to stop men and women from going there. If man wilfully chooses to be a follower of satan, he definitely will be with satan throughout eternity."

What is assumed is that these scriptures indicate a final condition of the sinner. Though God does punish and hold man accountable for his choices, these verses in no way prove a finally state of the sinner. "Everlasting" in Matthew 25.41 is translated in Young's Transliteration as "age-enduring" meaning an indefinite period of time. Which would be better understood as "fire that is unquenched until it accomplishes its purpose of purging the sinner.

2 Cor. 5:19 and Col.1:20: Let's us know that Jesus dealt with the wages of sin:

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
KJV

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
KJV

Originally Posted by crakjak

Matthew 25.41 is translated in Young's Transliteration as "age-enduring" meaning an indefinite period of time. Which would be better understood as "fire that is unquenched until it accomplishes its purpose of purging the sinner.

I promised that I would not allow myself to be drawn into this debate/discussion, however, after reading all of the things you have written, especially the statements quoted, I would like to ask one thing of you, namely this:

Please provide at least one scriptural passage which reveals the length of time that this "purging (of) the sinner" lasts. Will it be one day, a week, month, year, or perhaps decades, or centuries? Being confident that you cannot provide at least one scriptural passage to support such an absurd allegation, then by your own words you have just blown your "theory" of UR right out of the window!

Yes, I know, you say that Young's translation of the Bible asserts this, but just who is Young? Is he such a pious mortal that he cannot be deceived into embracing and publishing something that is in error? Young is a fallible mortal, just as you and I. And we have been warned of the consequences of placing our dependence upon man instead of God. At least the contents of the KJV of the Bible were written by a group of men, which seems to me to adhere more closely to the biblical requirement to ascertain the truthfulness of things through the words of two or more witnesses.