Visited a non UPC church

[houston]

Originally Posted by Lacey

[/B][/B]

Frightening thought.
And you are right Elder, it is sad, but, so.

Yet, he did not answer the question. Maybe YOU can define "departing from the faith."

[AreYouReady?]

Jesus did not make having "faith" a hard thing to do. He was talking about faith in God. His sermon in Matthew 23 is something we all should take heed to, including pastors and elders.

What is faith? Hebrews 11:1 defines it as:
1. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Dictionary.com defines faith as:


World English Dictionary
faith (feɪθ)

— n
1. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
2. a specific system of religious beliefs: the Jewish faith
3. Christianity trust in God and in his actions and promises
4. a conviction of the truth of certain doctrines of religion, esp when this is not based on reason
5. complete confidence or trust in a person, remedy, etc
6. any set of firmly held principles or beliefs
7. allegiance or loyalty, as to a person or cause (esp in the phrases keep faith , break faith )
8. bad faith insincerity or dishonesty
9. good faith honesty or sincerity, as of intention in business (esp in the phrase in good faith )

— interj
10. archaic indeed; really (also in the phrases by my faith , in faith )

[C12: from Anglo-French feid , from Latin fidēs trust, confidence]

Who are we worshipping when we have faith? An organized church system and it's extra biblical rules or are we worshipping Christ? I think that it is and unfair unrealistic statement to say that "some shall depart from the faith" when some leaves an overbearing church system. That would be akin to saying that one's faith worships the system's doctrine of rules instead of God.

Some people need that structured environment to live for God. Indeed it helps with assembling with like-minded believers and fellowship if they abide by biblical principles. And many UPC and other fellowships have God-fearing pastors who actually love and accept all people.

But in some places, UPC and those churches like them, can be a hindrance for people worshipping God by what some people wrote in these forums and by my own experiences. I went into the organized church system excited thinking that finally there was something real in this world. That God was real and most importantly that He still grants us the indwelling of the Holy Ghost in this day and time. I left the church system after 6 years deflated and disappointed in the church system and it's impossible set of rules...but not disappointed in God in any way, shape of form. It is God who sustains me and heals me from the great disappointment I felt while being in that system.

So...who departs from the "faith" when leaving an abusive system? Is it the one who left or is it the church leaders who place their rules above all that is good and pure of God?

[NorCal]

Sigh, those who try to live by the law, die by the law.

The whole point of having the Holy Ghost is to have those convictions on a daily basis. If not, it is very easy to have your conscience seared.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Sigh, those who try to live by the law, die by the law.

The whole point of having the Holy Ghost is to have those convictions on a daily basis. If not, it is very easy to have your conscience seared.

Whose convictions are we talking about?

[MawMaw]

Originally Posted by houston

Yet, he did not answer the question. Maybe YOU can define "departing from the faith."

Doesn't the Bible say there is only one Faith?

Here are just a few examples of what I think departing from that
Faith means.....

"Now the Spirit (of God) expressly says that in latter times some (church leaders ... reverends, ministers, rabbis, priests, bishops, popes, saints) will DEPART from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons(opposing things the Bible says ... in direct opposition to God's Word)speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:1-2)

"For the time WILL come (and we are now there) when they (many men and women who call themselves "Christian") will NOT ENDURE sound doctrine. (What the Bible actually says and teaches ...)

Instead, to suit their own desires they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears WANT to hear. (who will only tell people what they want to hear and not what the Bible says)

They will turn their ears AWAY from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you (believing Christians) be watchful in all things, endure hardship, (for many (most) today don't want to hear what the Bible says ...) do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." (2 Timothy 4:3-5)

"BEWARE of false teachers (prophets), who come to you in sheep's clothing,(they may seem "caring," attractive, friendly and many will have impressive religious titles) but inwardly they are ravenous wolves." ("Wolves" destroy and devour the "sheep") (Matthew 7:15)

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Are pants and cut hair obstacles to salvation???

Oh the many stories that have been told of women who just could not pray through to receiving the Holy Ghost until they threw away their pants!


Maybe there is something to it.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Oh the many stories that have been told of women who just could not pray through to receiving the Holy Ghost until they threw away their pants!


Maybe there is something to it.

And maybe in their mind they couldn't yield to the Holy Ghost because they were told they would not receive the Holy Ghost until they threw away their pants?

How would you explain the millions of Christian women who have the Holy Ghost and wear slacks? Now be careful here if you answer.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

And maybe in their mind they couldn't yield to the Holy Ghost because they were told they would not receive the Holy Ghost until they threw away their pants?

How would you explain the millions of Christian women who have the Holy Ghost and wear slacks? Now be careful here if you answer.

The only way to be careful is to not answer.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Oh the many stories that have been told of women who just could not pray through to receiving the Holy Ghost until they threw away their pants!


Maybe there is something to it.

That's funny!

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

And maybe in their mind they couldn't yield to the Holy Ghost because they were told they would not receive the Holy Ghost until they threw away their pants?

That's even more funny....