Where do the lost spend eternity? Really!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Oh that's eay! The Son's name is Jesus, too.

What scripture says the Father's name is Jesus?

Have you changed your mind?

But here are a couple of passages:
Jn. 5:43, Heb. 1:4!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Have you changed your mind?

But here are a couple of passages:
Jn. 5:43, Heb. 1:4!

I was just answering the pop quiz! I'm learning about what you believe. Don't believe it myself, yet.

I don't see the Father's name being Jesus in those scriptures. In John 5:43, Jesus says He came in His Father's name. I could do something "in my father's name", if I had power of attorney or otherwise was given authority to act on his behalf. But that doesn't mean my dad's name is Timmy! And it sure wouldn't mean I am my own father!

Hebrews 1:4 is maybe a bit closer, but still a stretch. The Son inherited a name from His Father, that's all it says. The whole chapter talks about the Father and the Son very much as if they were two persons! In v 1-1, God used to speak to man through prophets, but now He speaks through His Son. God's Son is heir of all things. The worlds were made through God's Son. V 3, the Son now sits on the right hand of Majesty. The Father speaks to His Son, etc. etc.

Besides, what if the Father's name is Jesus? That wouldn't prove that they are one and the same person. Lots of fathers name their sons after themselves. Or is that in the next lesson?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Your answer to my question "But do the 'saved' somehow stop 'loving evil', while the 'lost' (whether by choice or simply by never hearing the gospel) somehow 'love evil'?" was "Yes, the children of the devil love evil and the children of God love good." It's a common technique in conversation to make sure one understands the other party by paraphrasing and asking if it's correct. So, by "children of the devil" did you mean "the lost", or not? And are "the lost" those who have not obeyed Acts 2:38, or not? Were you answering my question about the saved and the lost, or not? It seemed like everything I said in my paraphrase logically followed from what you (and perhaps others) wrote. If I got it wrong, you could just correct me, rather than bash me. But suit yourself.

The unsaved Timmy are children of the devil regardless of WHY they are unsaved. Yes the unsaved love evil. The saved hate evil and love good. If you want to discuss HOW someone get's saved the make sure that is your question to begin with. Thread title....where to the lost spend eternity. You did not ask are the lost only those that don't obey acts 2:38

Who's putting words in whose mouth now?

Timmy, if you are here just to troll and fight with us, you might as well pack your bags and go home. If you want to know what we believe and why then we can do that, but I have no patience for someone that is just here to bait people and I think the other admins are in agreement

I have tried to get you folks to explain your beliefs with scripture. You have tried to do so. It hasn't worked, so far. If you want to give up, fine. I'll go my way, and will live my life as I see fit and pleasing to God, and it won't bother me one iota if you think I'm not.

See, Timmy, I have no said one thing about how you live your life pleasing to God. Yet you keep making emotive comments like that. Classic signs of a troll. Now I am telling you, if you want to discuss scriptures I am all for that and I will personally discuss scriptures with you.

You asked where do the lost go and the answer was the lake of fire...do I need to quote it for you or do you already know what verse I am refering to/?

Emotional rhetoric? Like concluding from what has been written here that I must be a child of the devil and love evil? I am a member of the class you've defined. If that doesn't make me a child of the devil, what does it do? Emotion or not, it's just simple logic. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong!)

I never said one thing about you personally as to being a child of anything. I never said you were lost or love evl or were going to hell. And an emotive argument is one that attempts to garner sympathetic votes or make someone feel guilty by reason of emotions. Truth is based on scriptures, not on whether or not you can garner a sympathetic vote or make someone feel guilty for saying you or anyone else is not saved. Again,what did you come here for? Approval? Or do you want to discuss what we believe and why?

And yes, I've read the rules. I'm here to learn about your faith, as provided in the rules. And in doing so, perhaps I have stirred the pot, and even annoyed some of you. I can't help it if you cannot answer my questions convincingly. Of course, you'll say I'm not trying to understand, just want to make trouble. You guys are good at reading minds.

See, someone that says "I can't help it if you cannot answer my questions convincingly" is not really someone that is here with an honest intent to discuss and learn, but sounds more like trolling.

Now, do you have any more questions on scriptures that I can answer and will you be answering our questions?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Trinitarianism is not a N.T. invention. It was invented by the Mother of Harlots who also objected to being baptized in the name of Jesus, forcing all to submit to the Trinitarian baptism.

This is unfortunate since it requires baptism in the name of Jesus right along with repentance for sin to be remitted. All who have not sin remitted are yet in their sin seeing that it is NOT remitted.

I wouldn't lump folks that are walking with God in all the knowledge they know with the mother of harlots. I have no sympathy for the RCC, but I differentiate between the corrupt system and folks whose hearts are turned to God and walking in the light that He has shone thus far.

[Timmy]

Please show me where my paraphrase got it wrong. To repeat it for easier reference:

"children of the devil" = anyone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38, is that correct?

Maybe you personally haven't said it, but I'm pretty sure it's commonly believed among Apostolics that if you haven't obeyed Acts 2:38, you are unsaved. You did say that the unsaved are children of the devil. Where is my error?

I apologize for putting words in your mouth. But are they true words or false?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So a lost person receives a spiritual body at death?

The traditional view of hell, is that God will preserve evil and sin in a fiery pit of torture and endless evil forever. Billions of souls cursing and hating God for the endless ages. God having a desire to be the Savior of the whole of mankind, being unable to overcome Satan and the "freewill of man" has to torture and burn those He created forever.

Rather the scripture teaches that Jesus' sacrifice has and will bring an end to the curse and sin forever. "...unwilling that any persish..."

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

See, someone that says "I can't help it if you cannot answer my questions convincingly" is not really someone that is here with an honest intent to discuss and learn, but sounds more like trolling.

Trolling? Well, what I said is a statement that's either true or false. It's a compound statement, so let's break it down.

"I can't help it if you ..." This is true, no problem there. It is obvious that I cannot control what you do. This is true independent of whether the rest of the compound statement is true or not.

"... cannot ... " This is debatable, and a presumption on my part. Let's come back to this.

" ... answer my questions convincingly." Again, debatable. Either I am, in fact, convinced by your answers and am lying about it, or I am not convinced. I claim that I am not convinced. If you take me at my word, there is yet another consideration: whether I am really trying to understand or not. Maybe I am a troll, and intentionally "misunderstand" what you're saying. Or maybe I am trying to understand, but can't. (Poor reading skills, poor logical reasoning skills, etc.) I don't know how to resolve this one, but I'll leave it up to you and the other admins to decide. If the verdict is "TROLL", I'm out of here. No hard feelings (on my side, anyway).

Back to "you cannot". Presumption, for sure. Maybe you can and don't, or maybe you cannot. And of course, this is tied to the rest of the compound statement. If I am a troll and not even trying to understand, then it's part of the trolling, and a lie, to say "you cannot". Otherwise, if I'm not a troll, it's still questionable whether you cannot answer my questions convincingly. Maybe you can, but won't, but I have a hard time believing that! But if you cannot, it would be for one (or a combination) of two reasons I can think of: 1. simple inability to articulate convincing answers (so far), or 2. the underlying doctrines you are explaining are, in fact, wrong.

Hmmm. I think I just sealed my fate. The only conclusion you will likely come to, if the above reasoning is sound, is that I am a troll. Otherwise, you'd have to admit to one of the two reasons I just listed, and neither one is very pleasant to consider.

BTW, there is an implication in my statement that isn't true, and I'd like to clear it up now: it looks like a blanket statement covering everything you (plural "you") have written in answering my questions. But that's not the case. It applies only to some of it, not all. I apologize for generalizing. Should have said "... some of my questions ..."

[Revelationist]

I didn't see a option that I could agree with... I think we believe to much about what Greek Mytholigy, Holy Wood and the Roman Catholic church says about Hell than what the Bible says about it...

Jerry Moon

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Please show me where my paraphrase got it wrong. To repeat it for easier reference:

Maybe you personally haven't said it, but I'm pretty sure it's commonly believed among Apostolics that if you haven't obeyed Acts 2:38, you are unsaved. You did say that the unsaved are children of the devil. Where is my error?

I apologize for putting words in your mouth. But are they true words or false?

Bump for Praxeas.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Bump for Praxeas.

Anyone else care to comment?