Are Trinitarians Saved?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

I agree! I don't believe that there are any magic words that must be said at baptism. I do believe that one must be baptized in the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe the mentioning of the Name of "Jesus" is Biblically and historically accurate.


Using the titles in water baptism is not something that can be backed up historically at all, for the first hundred to hundred and fifty years of Christianity.

When viewing Matthew 28:19, one should view it with all of the scriptures in mind.


Same way we should view salvation. Acts 2:38 should be interpreted in a way that does not contradict the other scriptures.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I believe the mentioning of the Name of "Jesus" is Biblically and historically accurate.


Using the titles in water baptism is not something that can be backed up historically at all, for the first hundred to hundred and fifty years of Christianity.

When viewing Matthew 28:19, one should view it with all of the scriptures in mind.


Same way we should view salvation. Acts 2:38 should be interpreted in a way that does not contradict the other scriptures.

There is hardly anything that can be historically back up for the first 100-150 years of christianity.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Could you explain the orthodox view of the Trinity?

Good to see you my Brother.

Hi! I'd like to start out by saying that it's very good to see you too EB.

My understanding of the Trinity is that according to Trinitarian doctrine GOD is a transcendent and unknowable single essence (being). Within this single essence are three eternal hypostasis (persons or personas) expressing the unknowable aspects of this essence. This essence is primarily revealed through the first person, God the Father. However, immanating from God the Father is the Logos, or God the Son. Immanating from both God the Father and God the Son is God the Holy Spirit. Essentially the Father is transcendent and invisible, seen only through theophanies and his self expression, the Logos. The Logos is the immanating self expression of God the Father in time and space. God the Father continues to be transcendent while the Logos reveals his mind and will within creation. Throughout the OT the Logos appeared as the Angel of the LORD. The Logos was made flesh in the NT and so was begotten by Mary (however being the Father's Logos he was eternally begotten before time began). Having surrendered all divine perogative the Logos became flesh and blood, the man Jesus Christ, God the Son. On the spiritual plane God operates as God the Holy Spirit through the power and the name of God the Son, which is Jesus (hense immanating from both God the Father and God the Son). Each "person" (hypostasis or persona) found in the single divine essence is complete thus separate in personhood, yet unified in essence (ousia). The three are one.

That's my understanding of the Trinity. God bless.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by allstate1

I have to agree with you one this!! I spent 10 years in the funeral home business and not one person that I know of ever came back and told any one what they saw on the other side! But some say we have to know with certainty how God and/or Jesus will appear to us in Heavan in order to be saved!!!!!!

Many have died and seen the Father of lights.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Joey Boneski

Because of who the Lord is was not debatable at that time...and it is singular.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Please note... they didn't have a Oneness liturgy wherein they spoke the name of Jesus over the repentant believer. In fact, the ones doing the baptizing weren't bound to say anything at all. It was the person being baptized that was to call upon the name of the Lord...

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Some stupid preacher could call out the names of Larry, Moe, and Curly over you when you're being baptized... but if you're calling upon the name of the Lord it's effectual. On the flip side... some preacher could call out the name of Jesus over you a thousand times while you're being baptized, but if you're not calling on the name of the Lord, you're only getting wet.

[Joey Boneski]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Joey,

Sincerely, you believe that Holy Spirit filled Trinitarians are going to hell?

So what will God do-- let them live Holy Spirit led lives and right before their death, remove the Holy Spirit from them so that they go to hell, void of the Spirit of God?

Or do you believe that these genuinely Holy Spirit filled Trinitarians will go to hell, while filled with the Holy Spirit?

I believe Jesus name baptism is necessary in salvation...however I don't believe that alone will get you to heaven...so my answer would be a yes as I read the word of God...repentance, Jesus name baptism, Holy Ghost enfilling are the first steps...then we are judged from the book of life by our works. There are plenty of Acts 2:38 believers whose work is sitting on a pew being critical that will be judged by those works. In judgement I cannot give an answer to the works...but obedience to the word in the issue of baptism I only see one way.

[Joey Boneski]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please note... they didn't have a Oneness liturgy wherein they spoke the name of Jesus over the repentant believer. In fact, the ones doing the baptizing weren't bound to say anything at all. It was the person being baptized that was to call upon the name of the Lord...

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Some stupid preacher could call out the names of Larry, Moe, and Curly over you when you're being baptized... but if you're calling upon the name of the Lord it's effectual. On the flip side... some preacher could call out the name of Jesus over you a thousand times while you're being baptized, but if you're not calling on the name of the Lord, you're only getting wet.

The name of the Lord is Jesus...be unashamed.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Joey Boneski

The name of the Lord is Jesus...be unashamed.

I'm still waiting on you to show me why being baptized in the name of the Lord only without Jesus is going to send me to hell...

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There is hardly anything that can be historically back up for the first 100-150 years of christianity.

Actually there is. Several older books out there that chronicle water baptism during the first 300 years of the church. All as told by historians in that time, writings, ancillary manuscript. There is skinny evidence, but there is some.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Please note... they didn't have a Oneness liturgy wherein they spoke the name of Jesus over the repentant believer. In fact, the ones doing the baptizing weren't bound to say anything at all. It was the person being baptized that was to call upon the name of the Lord...

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Some stupid preacher could call out the names of Larry, Moe, and Curly over you when you're being baptized... but if you're calling upon the name of the Lord it's effectual. On the flip side... some preacher could call out the name of Jesus over you a thousand times while you're being baptized, but if you're not calling on the name of the Lord, you're only getting wet.

That's certainly one of many examples and ways to do it.