For those that left the UPC...

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by longhairgirl

Wow! I was just forming a nice response to your last post in my head, and get on and see this. That's not very nice!

I won't stay long because this was not what I was looking for. I deal with enough UPC bashing everyday, I don't want to deal with it on the internet also I was looking for a like minded internet forum. I am a memeber of the Dave Ramsey TMMO, and I am frankly sick of all the getting around the no cussing rule and people being vulgar. But I knew I would miss the online community feel. So I find one that is called Apostolic Friends, and I frankly don't want to deal with explaining myself and my standards to people over and over all the time. Just don't want to deal with it, hope that's allowed

Now, for the nice response I was thinking. I wasn't raised in church, so I did study out each standard one by one. And it goes without saying that the inside is more important than the outside. The most important things any Christian can do is worship, pray, fast, and love others as much as possible.

I seriously didn't want to offend anyone on here. My original post was for the OP...possibly how her husband is feeling. I've seen what happens when one spouse leaves the church...usually the other spouse leaves also or the marriage ends in divorce. Sometimes, they can make it work but that is rare. Once again, OP I am praying for you

I wasn't trying to be 'not nice'. Infact I am one of the nicest on here. I am trying to give you food for thought. It is one thing to say that you believe something like standards and follow them and a whole different thing when it comes to following Jesus. I meant no harm or malice with my statements. At times it is difficult to tell the tone of any post. I was merely comparing and contrasting.

But if you really came to the internet to find people that are ALL like minded then you are living in a dream world. It is impossible for everyone, conservative or not, to believe the same. You might be surprized at what actually goes on here. There are UPC bashers and then there are people like me that I don't believe the standards are essential to living a healthy christian life and at times can become more of a god to us that God actually is, but still attend UPC churches. You are welcome to stay here and post. Your opinions will be heard and discussed. Don't take offense if someone is opposed to your exact beliefs. I would bet that even people in your own church that you call friends don't really see eye-to-eye.

My main point is that first I didn't mean to offend and if I did I am sorry. But it did kinda throw some of us off when pretty much the first thing you said was that you weren't staying because basically we were right enough or whatever. AFF is a place where one can come and help to find balance in life both spiritual and physical. If you still choose not to stay please make sure that it because you feel you need to move on not because someone has hurt your feelings or that you feel someone was trying to hurt your feelings. You know the way you feel about standards and the doctrine you believe, how very personal it is to you, well that is how we all feel. There is no need to come out of the corner with your hands up ready for a fight. No one wants to fight with you. Honestly this community will do more fighting for you than against you. Sure there is room for great debates and sometimes they get deep and occasionally cross lines, but that is merely because we are so passionate about how we believe. Generally no one is still mad by the end of the day.

Again stay and enjoy what you enjoy and ignore what you don't. I believe that everyone that is one here for the right reasons will ultimately benefit by being here. Will all that being said this is not a "Members Only" club. Anyone is free to join in the fun. But please, please, please don't think that someone is jumping your beliefs or making fun of them. Because at the end of the day we are all brothers and sisters in Christ whether we agree on everything or not. Stay apart of the family a little longer you might come to loving this place.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by pelathais

...
My in-laws took to the new stuff (Three Stepper "Water & Spirit" salvation, no pants on women and no uncut on women) with all the zeal of new converts. But every time the old family picture books came out there were many inevitable questions. I especially like the pics of the church picnics where all of the Pentecostal ladies are wearing slacks and have trimmed bangs. Then I'd pull out a recent Pentecostal Herald and see the same ladies, older now and with their hair done up in beehive fashion.

It's really sad, isn't it? There is a whole generation who have no idea that the prohibition on women's slacks and the prohibition on jewelry and the prohibition on women trimming or cutting their hair is actually "new" Pentecost and not the "old paths." Also, the insistence on water and Spirit baptism as being the "new birth" or "birth of water and Spirit" is one of the newer innovations and was not "old time" Apostolic or Pentecostal.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'll respond to your second paragraph first. All the guilt trip stuff I see sickens me. I mean that in the most general sense possible. The people who leave or think of leaving are constantly asked, "What's wrong with you, couldn't you make your whole church see the truth." or "What's wrong with you, wheres your love?" or "What's wrong with you, couldn't you keep the standards anyway even if you didn't believe in them?" or "What's wrong with you, can't the keep the standards for Jesus?" I'll even give a scripture now. Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

There's another problem with your second paragraph also. Your trying to compare carpet color to the standards that people claim are derived from the bible. Some even came up with a special slogan for those standards; "holiness or hell". So, no you can't compare opinions about where money should go, who should be in leadership, choir uniform, carpet color, or paint color to these "holiness or hell" standards.

So in case its not already clear, let me enlighten you on why someone would leave over the standards. They don't leave the church because they don't love God or even the people there. The real reason is quite simple really. It's because they get sick and tired of hearing something constantly preached as biblical that they don't believe is biblical. They get sick and tired of seeing others looked down upon for not following what they believe are manmade standards.

Now as for your first paragraph, let me begin with a question. If the standards aren't biblical then why should the church preach them? You answered that in part already, you said it's because of discipline. But discipline from heaven is not in standards its in prayer and fasting.

One other thing. You can keep the standards for Jesus if you wish. I'll watch others do something for Jesus too. I'll watch them not keep the standards. And heres another scripture for you. Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

If the Word of God had been put into little hearts and minds more and
livestyles lived before them while they were growing up, perhaps there
would have been a better understanding. As newborn babes desire the
sincere milk of the Word. I wonder how many children were not fed the
sincere milk of the Word that they might grow thereby. Today it is more
"popular" to just feed the newborn "formula". The makers of the formula
think their product is better than the God-given milk. (no offense to those
mothers who, for whatever reason could not nurse their precious baby.)

I know of young women who just didn't want to breast feed their baby
and they have that choice. Lot of less-best choices have been made in
many ways. Convenience has become in many cases, the norm. Children
with working mothers, eat fast food, junk food and now it is openly recog-
nized that overweight children has become a national problem as well as
a health problem. Wake Up, America, wake up, church, it's later than you
think! Growing up without being fed the Word of God in the home and in
some cases, the church. Don't blame the church if she didn't feed your kids
what you thought was right. Spiritual or natural. You're the parents. Don't
expect the preacher to work a miracle of what was our God-given responsi-
bility, and we blew it. Grow Up!

Falla39

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

...
On another note, in regards to the "100% UPC" term that another person used, that scares me. I have never been nor am "100% any man-made organization". Saying we are 100% SOMETHING means we will believe whatever they teach whether we study it or not, or at least study the bible by LOOKING for what the fellowship teaches and not really looking for what the Bible actually is saying.

I am 100% Kingdom of God.

100 percent UPC means completely willing to drink the kool aid with no questions asked. What ever happened with following the preacher/leader/pope only as long as he follows Christ the Word?

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I wasn't trying to be 'not nice'. Infact I am one of the nicest on here. I am trying to give you food for thought. It is one thing to say that you believe something like standards and follow them and a whole different thing when it comes to following Jesus. I meant no harm or malice with my statements. At times it is difficult to tell the tone of any post. I was merely comparing and contrasting.

But if you really came to the internet to find people that are ALL like minded then you are living in a dream world. It is impossible for everyone, conservative or not, to believe the same. You might be surprized at what actually goes on here. There are UPC bashers and then there are people like me that I don't believe the standards are essential to living a healthy christian life and at times can become more of a god to us that God actually is, but still attend UPC churches. You are welcome to stay here and post. Your opinions will be heard and discussed. Don't take offense if someone is opposed to your exact beliefs. I would bet that even people in your own church that you call friends don't really see eye-to-eye.

My main point is that first I didn't mean to offend and if I did I am sorry. But it did kinda throw some of us off when pretty much the first thing you said was that you weren't staying because basically we were right enough or whatever. AFF is a place where one can come and help to find balance in life both spiritual and physical. If you still choose not to stay please make sure that it because you feel you need to move on not because someone has hurt your feelings or that you feel someone was trying to hurt your feelings. You know the way you feel about standards and the doctrine you believe, how very personal it is to you, well that is how we all feel. There is no need to come out of the corner with your hands up ready for a fight. No one wants to fight with you. Honestly this community will do more fighting for you than against you. Sure there is room for great debates and sometimes they get deep and occasionally cross lines, but that is merely because we are so passionate about how we believe. Generally no one is still mad by the end of the day.

Again stay and enjoy what you enjoy and ignore what you don't. I believe that everyone that is one here for the right reasons will ultimately benefit by being here. Will all that being said this is not a "Members Only" club. Anyone is free to join in the fun. But please, please, please don't think that someone is jumping your beliefs or making fun of them. Because at the end of the day we are all brothers and sisters in Christ whether we agree on everything or not. Stay apart of the family a little longer you might come to loving this place.

Perhaps I take things more seriously as I am older and farther down the
Path of Life. It's not all fun! But we MUST LOVE each other, for LOVE is of
GOD, and GOD IS LOVE. The Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by
the HOLY GHOST. It we have the Spirit, we have Love. I do love everyone
on this forum and I know that we don't all agree. But we can act/react in
an agreeable manner!
Hugs,
Falla39

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Something is awry. If following the Spirit means a woman will not cut her hair to "have long hair," does that mean a man is following the Spirit when he lets hair grow down his back and ensures it is trimmed and cut every so often so it is not "long/uncut"?

My point is that the Spirit and the Word agree. If a man cannot have hair down his back so long as he keeps it trimmed, then LONG does not equal UNCUT. NO amount of Spirit will lead one to think otherwise.

My opinion, anyway.

On another note, in regards to the "100% UPC" term that another person used, that scares me. I have never been nor am "100% any man-made organization". Saying we are 100% SOMETHING means we will believe whatever they teach whether we study it or not, or at least study the bible by LOOKING for what the fellowship teaches and not really looking for what the Bible actually is saying.

I am 100% Kingdom of God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

100 percent UPC means completely willing to drink the kool aid with no questions asked. What ever happened with following the preacher/leader/pope only as long as he follows Christ the Word?

Exactly, but every movement has its kool-aid drinkers. Leaders should root them out, though.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Perhaps I take things more seriously as I am older and farther down the
Path of Life. It's not all fun! But we MUST LOVE each other, for LOVE is of
GOD, and GOD IS LOVE. The Love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by
the HOLY GHOST. It we have the Spirit, we have Love. I do love everyone
on this forum and I know that we don't all agree. But we can act/react in
an agreeable manner!
Hugs,
Falla39

Good thoughts. I think that it is best to be careful, but not to just the shark

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by jfrog

So in case its not already clear, let me enlighten you on why someone would leave over the standards. They don't leave the church because they don't love God or even the people there. The real reason is quite simple really. It's because they get sick and tired of hearing something constantly preached as biblical that they don't believe is biblical. They get sick and tired of seeing others looked down upon for not following what they believe are manmade standards.

I will add that one might also want to attend a church that is not guilty of judging others following Christ, just because they feel following standards and men are more important than the greatest commandment. We want to attend a church that loves as Jesus loves, and have a place to bring people that we lead to the Lord.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Something is awry. If following the Spirit means a woman will not cut her hair to "have long hair," does that mean a man is following the Spirit when he lets hair grow down his back and ensures it is trimmed and cut every so often so it is not "long/uncut"?

My point is that the Spirit and the Word agree. If a man cannot have hair down his back so long as he keeps it trimmed, then LONG does not equal UNCUT. NO amount of Spirit will lead one to think otherwise.

My opinion, anyway.

On another note, in regards to the "100% UPC" term that another person used, that scares me. I have never been nor am "100% any man-made organization". Saying we are 100% SOMETHING means we will believe whatever they teach whether we study it or not, or at least study the bible by LOOKING for what the fellowship teaches and not really looking for what the Bible actually is saying.

I am 100% Kingdom of God.

Bro. Blume,
You know good and well that I know and you know I know, that following the leading of the Spirit entails a lot more than just "hair".
The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, peace and joy,
in the Holy Ghost.
You can always tell those who are following after God and His Word and those who are following after another man/men. When the man/men change, those following change also.
Blessings,
Falla39