DKB Shares His Vision: Apostolic Identity,

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DAII

It is ... and I can name a handful of men in full compliance of today's Holiness article. Some of them just left.

And makes our friends, brethren and family members liars, imo.

And the WOTS is that many are lining up to leave with them.

The nostalgia of being part of the UPCI is no longer as strong as the Missio Deo.

I guess if you've been in the UPCI for decades, it would make sense to have the "change from the inside" mentality. But the newer and younger generations don't want to fight the way they've seen their elders fight. They don't want to argue for decades over issues like television, when they have such a greater mission to serve. Dan hit it on the head: majoring in the minors.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Justin hypocrisy is a claim to righteousness, a boastful slapping of the chest, all the while a heart that is insincere and far from God. I wouldn't quite make the stretch of them handling the situation the way they do to "hypocrisy." But close

There's so many men that continue to sign the affirmation statement that it befuddles me. I have had conversations with them. Some of these have held "high positions" -- some high enough rank in the UPC fellowship that it would blow your mind. If you asked them if Billy Graham would be in heaven, they wouldn't hesitate to tell you "yes." But back @ conference, you wouldn't ever know it by the rhetoric they use.

Exactly:

(World English Bible)
Matt 7:37: But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes' and your 'No' be 'No.' Whatever is more than these is of the evil one

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Originally Posted by Brother David

It proves that our forebears in the Apostolic Faith did not have the "holiness standards" that exist in some churches today and that the attempt by some to enforce some sort of ad hoc "Apostolic Identity" based upon those "standards" has no historical basis in fact.

In other words, we're all being asked to accept some things that were just invented in the post WW2 years at the cost of "Apostolic Unity" and at the cost of the Scripture.

Thats where you are wrong. Who's your pastor? Because EVERYTHING that we TEACH and PREACH should be BIBLICAL. I'm not for adding to or taking away. When we refer to the old path, we are referring to the 1st Century church. Yes there were standards. Yes there were guidelines.

My question is this. (?) You tell me what you have a problem with and If its something we preach or teach then we should have scripture for it. Fire away!

[DAII]

Then there is the social stigma of "leaving Holiness"!

Changing from within would be best served by appealing to a return to our roots ... our Apostolic Identity accurately portrayed.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

Thats where you are wrong. Who's your pastor? Because EVERYTHING that we TEACH and PREACH should be BIBLICAL. I'm not for adding to or taking away. When we refer to the old path, we are referring to the 1st Century church. Yes there were standards. Yes there were guidelines.

My question is this. (?) You tell me what you have a problem with and If its something we preach or teach then we should have scripture for it. Fire away!

The start of the "oneness" movement in the early 1900's was a great step. But as time went on the revelation of scripture became more evident. Its like when you first get the Holy Ghost. Friend you dont start out praying an hour a day. It takes time. You dont understand everything fully at that moment. BUT....as time goes by they began to UNDERSTAND.

Throwing out frivilous pics dont discredit scripture. Keep in ming brother....

Somethings we do for JESUS sake;
But, somethings we do for the Gospels sake.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

Thats where you are wrong. Who's your pastor? Because EVERYTHING that we TEACH and PREACH should be BIBLICAL. I'm not for adding to or taking away. When we refer to the old path, we are referring to the 1st Century church. Yes there were standards. Yes there were guidelines.

My question is this. (?) You tell me what you have a problem with and If its something we preach or teach then we should have scripture for it. Fire away!

Are you claiming your standards are that of the Early Church (assuming the Early Church used words like "standards")???? Please articulate which ones you share in common. And then cite a source for which supports that fact (either scriptural or historical will do)

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DAII

Then there is the social stigma of "leaving Holiness"!

Changing from within would be best served by appealing to a return to our roots ... our Apostolic Identity accurately portrayed.

DA, those leaving are presented with some harsh realities. First, a rejection of those they've known for years. Second, the ugly reality that many UPC churches that leave deal with many issues not common with your local AOG or Baptist church down the road. It's as if the new-found freedom takes over. Instead of the raw Jesus culture, unfortunately, many turn to license for anything to feed their carnal appetite. They are leaving to fulfill a Jesus appetite, and instead encounter people unsure how to balance themselves without the heavy weights of Old Pentecost on their back. So, many fall. Some, wobble around. Some have permanent crooked backs. Some figure it out and get through it. But make no mistake, all of us are scarred, because we were wired in a such a way that viewed God, the church, the ministry and the world in a certain way that it's hard to undo.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

The start of the "oneness" movement in the early 1900's was a great step. But as time went on the revelation of scripture became more evident. Its like when you first get the Holy Ghost. Friend you dont start out praying an hour a day. It takes time. You dont understand everything fully at that moment. BUT....as time goes by they began to UNDERSTAND.

Throwing out frivilous pics dont discredit scripture. Keep in ming brother....

Somethings we do for JESUS sake;
But, somethings we do for the Gospels sake.

Do you pray "an hour a day?" I don't even like that sort of admonition. Like it's some test of spirituality. Being a people of prayer doesn't mean "Come forward and make a committment to pray for an hour every day." We turn good things into rituals of our spirituality. Talk about the beauty and power in prayer and let people WANT and CHOOSE to take the time to pray. Prayer is the most humbling of topics, because none of us feel we do it enough. None of us!

Back to your other topics. What "revelation of scripture" became more evident? Are you sure we didn't get more screwed up as many well-intentioned movements have since come and gone?Are you saying the pioneers didn't understand anything about the Bible until they had the Azusa experience??

We don't need pics to discredit all of the hardline, distorted interpretations of things like make-up, jewlery, uncut hair, etc. These "revelations" were in likely the best of intentions, but poorly exegeted.

And you must admit that the whole "ancient landmark" comment, when preached, is often looking back to the 1900s, not Pentecost. It sort helps one realize these "ancient landmarks" are quite modern.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by DeuteronomyCh8

Thats where you are wrong. Who's your pastor? Because EVERYTHING that we TEACH and PREACH should be BIBLICAL. I'm not for adding to or taking away. When we refer to the old path, we are referring to the 1st Century church. Yes there were standards. Yes there were guidelines.

My question is this. (?) You tell me what you have a problem with and If its something we preach or teach then we should have scripture for it. Fire away!

Hi there DeuteronomyCh8. Welcome to AFF. I don't think I have seen a new poster with your raw zeal for what he believes to be true sicne the debut of the poster called Caston Smith.

We do hope you enjoy your visit here.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

DA, those leaving are presented with some harsh realities. First, a rejection of those they've known for years. Second, the ugly reality that many UPC churches that leave deal with many issues not common with your local AOG or Baptist church down the road. It's as if the new-found freedom takes over. Instead of the raw Jesus culture, unfortunately, many turn to license for anything to feed their carnal appetite. They are leaving to fulfill a Jesus appetite, and instead encounter people unsure how to balance themselves without the heavy weights of Old Pentecost on their back. So, many fall. Some, wobble around. Some have permanent crooked backs. Some figure it out and get through it. But make no mistake, all of us are scarred, because we were wired in a such a way that viewed God, the church, the ministry and the world in a certain way that it's hard to undo.

So, very true.