Whats The Point Of The Resurrection Of The Dead? - Page 11

Michael The Disciple · #**101** 06-26-2009, 06:55 PM

15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”*
15:55 “Death, where is your sting?
Hades, where is your victory?”*

Ok at the resurrection these things are fulfilled. In verse 54 Paul says death is swallowed up in victory. In verse 55 he asks Hades where is your victory?

Until the resurrection happens (it has not yet) in what way does Hades have the victory?

easter · #**102** 06-26-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 But when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then what is written will happen:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”*
15:55 “Death, where is your sting?
Hades, where is your victory?”*

Ok at the resurrection these things are fulfilled. In verse 54 Paul says death is swallowed up in victory. In verse 55 he asks Hades where is your victory?

Until the resurrection happens (it has not yet) in what way does Hades have the victory?

Don't you think that the Lord is the reason death has lost it's sting?Once again I will tell you before the blood of the Lamb(Jesus)all the spirits went down into the earth.The righteous and the unrighteous,separated by a gulf.Separated from God.Jesus came,died and his blood took the place of the old covenant,which was the law.Sin still prevailed and God can not look upon sin.Jesus's blood covered those sins and the spirits were no longer separated from God because of sin.Jesus goes down,gets the spirits of the righteous carries them to the third Heaven which is Paradise.So death lost it's sting and Hades has no victory over a child of God.

easter · #**103** 06-26-2009, 07:25 PM

read Romans 8:11 But if the spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you,he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his spirit that dwellth in you.

You see Michael that is why we are called the Body of Christ.Let me ask you if believers are indwelled by the Holy Spirit what happens when the believer dies?Does the Holy Spirit that dwells in him,becomes a part of him in his walk with the Lord,does the Holy spirit die with the Christian?

easter · #**104** 06-26-2009, 08:46 PM

So to conclude this discussion on the point of the Resurrection of the dead...
It's to get their glorified body and at the same time the Harpazo takes place and the bride of Christ along with the restrainer leave out of this world...
Let's not forget Elijah that is flying around some where in a flaming chariot

He will be one of the two witness but that's another teaching.

Michael The Disciple · #**105** 06-26-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by easter

Don't you think that the Lord is the reason death has lost it's sting?Once again I will tell you before the blood of the Lamb(Jesus)all the spirits went down into the earth.The righteous and the unrighteous,separated by a gulf.Separated from God.Jesus came,died and his blood took the place of the old covenant,which was the law.Sin still prevailed and God can not look upon sin.Jesus's blood covered those sins and the spirits were no longer separated from God because of sin.Jesus goes down,gets the spirits of the righteous carries them to the third Heaven which is Paradise.So death lost it's sting and Hades has no victory over a child of God.

But what you cant see is that according to the Apostle Paul Hades DOES have the victory at present.

At the resurrection of the dead when the saints come back to life Paul says:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”*
15:55 “Death, where is your sting?
Hades, where is your victory?”*

So when the dead are raised out of Hades at the resurrection THEN shall be fulfilled this saying of Yeshua.

16:18 I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 16:19

See? Yeshua promised that Hades will not prevail over the Church. At present in the natural it seems the Church is just like the world. All men die.

But at the resurrection Yeshua will unlock the gates of death/hades and his people those who died in him will be set free from death!

Hades and Sheol are the same place. Hades in the Greek Sheol in the Hebrew.

When the righteous die they go there just like the wicked.

17:11 My days are past, my plans are broken off,
as are the thoughts of my heart.
17:12 They change the night into day,
saying ‘The light is near’ in the presence of darkness.
17:13 If I look for Sheol as my house,
if I have spread my couch in the darkness,
17:14 If I have said to corruption, ‘You are my father;’
to the worm, ‘My mother,’ and ‘my sister;’
17:15 where then is my hope?
as for my hope, who shall see it?
17:16 Shall it go down with me to the gates of Sheol,
or descend together into the dust?”

The gates of Sheol are the gates of death. Job says when he went to Sheol he was going to THE DUST.

Here is the same thing in the LXX the Greek Old Testament.

11 My days have passed in groaning, and my heart-strings are broken. 12 I have turned the night into day: the light is short because of darkness. 13 For if I remain, Hades is my habitation: and my bed has been made in darkness. 14 I have called upon death to be my father, and corruption to be my mother and sister. 15 Where then is yet my hope? or where shall I see my good? 16 Will they go down with me to Hades, or shall we go down together to the tomb?

Hades is the grave.

Thats why the English translation in the New Testament reads like this:

55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The word grave is actually "hades".

So it is at the resurrection, at the last trump that hades will be defeated!

Its gates will be unlocked by him who prevailed against its power long ago and took its keys from satan.

All the saints who have been "asleep" will wake on that day as David said and be satisfied in his likeness.

The death blow to "instant heaven" doctrine is seen clearly. The dead that are in hades are not merely "bodies" as they teach.

Davids soul is still there today.

25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in HADES neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28: Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29: Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HADES neither his flesh did see corruption.
32: This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

There are both bodies verse 26 and souls verse 27 in Hades/Sheol. The place translated into English as "the grave".

Its victory will be taken away when the last trumpet sounds. When this mortal puts on immortality.

And we will all remember the promise of Yeshua:

16:18 I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 16:19

55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades) , where is thy victory?

So thats why the resurrection is so important. It is then that hades has no more victory over the saints!

easter · #**106** 06-26-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

But what you cant see is that according to the Apostle Paul Hades DOES have the victory at present.

At the resurrection of the dead when the saints come back to life Paul says:

“Death is swallowed up in victory.”*
15:55 “Death, where is your sting?
Hades, where is your victory?”*

So when the dead are raised out of Hades at the resurrection THEN shall be fulfilled this saying of Yeshua.

16:18 I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 16:19

See? Yeshua promised that Hades will not prevail over the Church. At present in the natural it seems the Church is just like the world. All men die.

But at the resurrection Yeshua will unlock the gates of death/hades and his people those who died in him will be set free from death!

Hades and Sheol are the same place. Hades in the Greek Sheol in the Hebrew.

When the righteous die they go there just like the wicked.

17:11 My days are past, my plans are broken off,
as are the thoughts of my heart.
17:12 They change the night into day,
saying ‘The light is near’ in the presence of darkness.
17:13 If I look for Sheol as my house,
if I have spread my couch in the darkness,
17:14 If I have said to corruption, ‘You are my father;’
to the worm, ‘My mother,’ and ‘my sister;’
17:15 where then is my hope?
as for my hope, who shall see it?
17:16 Shall it go down with me to the gates of Sheol,
or descend together into the dust?”

The gates of Sheol are the gates of death. Job says when he went to Sheol he was going to THE DUST.

Here is the same thing in the LXX the Greek Old Testament.

11 My days have passed in groaning, and my heart-strings are broken. 12 I have turned the night into day: the light is short because of darkness. 13 For if I remain, Hades is my habitation: and my bed has been made in darkness. 14 I have called upon death to be my father, and corruption to be my mother and sister. 15 Where then is yet my hope? or where shall I see my good? 16 Will they go down with me to Hades, or shall we go down together to the tomb?

Hades is the grave.

Thats why the English translation in the New Testament reads like this:

55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The word grave is actually "hades".

So it is at the resurrection, at the last trump that hades will be defeated!

Its gates will be unlocked by him who prevailed against its power long ago and took its keys from satan.

All the saints who have been "asleep" will wake on that day as David said and be satisfied in his likeness.

The death blow to "instant heaven" doctrine is seen clearly. The dead that are in hades are not merely "bodies" as they teach.

Davids soul is still there today.

25: For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26: Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27: Because thou wilt not leave my soul in HADES neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28: Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29: Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30: Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31: He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in HADES neither his flesh did see corruption.
32: This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

There are both bodies verse 26 and souls verse 27 in Hades/Sheol. The place translated into English as "the grave".

Its victory will be taken away when the last trumpet sounds. When this mortal puts on immortality.

And we will all remember the promise of Yeshua:

16:18 I also tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. 16:19

55: O death, where is thy sting? O grave (hades) , where is thy victory?

So thats why the resurrection is so important. It is then that hades has no more victory over the saints!

Paul was asking"Death where's your sting now that Jesus has paid for our sins on the cross.
Hades where is your victory now that Jesus has paid for our sins on the cross.
Before Jesus, death held the spirits in Hades.Good and Bad but seperated by a chasm.
Hades had the victory over God's people,held them prisoner.God loved us so much and did not want to be seperated from his children(like any parent would be)that he sent his only son to pay the price that we could have never paid to bring the spirits out and into the presence of the almighty.
Hades and Sheol are the same.The Good and Bad were seperated by a chasm.
In speaking about the Church and the gates of hell/Hades will not prevail against it. This is because Christ died on the cross and his blood covers the sins of man kind and through him the church prevails over Hades and Hades can no longer prevail over God's children(THE Bride Of Christ which is the Church)So Hades can never come up against the blood of the Lamb and his bride(the Church)Hades just will not ever again hold God's people.

You keep bringing up King David and I just have to tell you that King David is in Paradise.God says that King David is a king after his own heart.I assure you that when David ask the Lord that his spirit not be left in Hades,He wasn't.