Baptism from God's Perspective - Page 11

GrowingPains · #**101** 07-13-2009, 03:30 PM

So I've repented, confessed Christ, and have been baptized (in the name of Jesus). I am seeking the Holy Ghost. Does God see me as His?

pelathais · #**102** 07-13-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stasis

I should point something out, not with intention to offend, but to bring out an important issue.

Those men claimed to have personal visitations with Christ?! In stating such, they have condemned themselves.

Matthew 24:23-27
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Christ commands me to not believe these men who claim they saw him. Christ says the next time he returns, he will shine from east to west (everyone will see him). If these men truly claimed this, either Christ is a liar, or these men are liars or at best deluded. I'll take Christ's word for it.

Look here. I wouldn't even believe a sweet little old granny who claimed to see Jesus by her bedside. Christ through scripture commands us to not believe such claims of private appearances..

Now, I am the very last guy to take up for Kenneth Hagin, et al. ... but how would you apply the words of Jesus from Matthew 24 with the experiences of Paul? Paul claimed to have "seen" Jesus.

I'm not saying that Hagin & Co. are on any level even near to the Apostle Paul; just wondering about this application of Matthew 24.

KWSS1976 · #**103** 07-13-2009, 03:34 PM

growing pains why are you seeking the holyghost? Find me someone in the bible that was seeking the holyghost...

stasis · #**104** 07-13-2009, 03:38 PM

Here's a question.

Read these.

Matt 20:22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Matt 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Luke 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! (The following day Christ was crucified)

Apparently baptism is something DIFFICULT, and something Christ had not even completed until his crucifixion. Was Christ really saying "Are ye able to be dipped in water and have the words 'In Jesus Name' spoken over you?" or "Are ye able to walk down an aisle and have an ecstatic emotional experience?"

We know Christ said there is one Lord, one Faith and ONE BAPTISM (not two, water and an emotional experience)

HERE'S A SUGGESTION. Get a McClinktock & Strong's encyclopedia and look up 'Blood Baptism'.

Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

KWSS1976 · #**105** 07-13-2009, 03:40 PM

Yea don't get me started on the 2 baptism thing bible only says one baptism..

stasis · #**106** 07-13-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Now, I am the very last guy to take up for Kenneth Hagin, et al. ... but how would you apply the words of Jesus from Matthew 24 with the experiences of Paul? Paul claimed to have "seen" Jesus.

I'm not saying that Hagin & Co. are on any level even near to the Apostle Paul; just wondering about this application of Matthew 24.

Paul saw Christ before the Gentile church came to fruition. Christ's Matthew 24 prophecy is in the context of the Gospel having been preached to the Gentiles ('the nations'). Paul was used to form and minister to the beginning Gentile Church. Kenneth Hagin and Chester Hensley were not. In fact the word 'apostle' means 'first letter carrier', ie, the first messenger to receive a letter or message (in this case, from Christ) to be delivered by chain relay to a specific party (in this case, the gentiles). So, it's also impossible for Hagin and Hensley, or anyone else today to be apostles. Apostles of Christ no longer exist, by the very definition of the word.

In fact, I'll add this. The only 'Apostles' that could exist today would not be apostles of Christ, but rather apostles of the 'other Jesus' mentioned by Paul, leaders of the apostate church which infects the world with false doctrine (apostate is the Greek word apo-stasis - apo-to cast off, stasis-cross or upright. Apostate means casting off the cross, teaching against the daily cross and against suffering for Christ's namesake), TEACHING ANOTHER BAPTISM which doesn't involve BEARING A DAILY CROSS. A baptism that makes one FEEL good (like a person who is drunk on scorpion venom), and makes one think "I'm okay" instead of convicting one of their sinful nature.

I think we'd all better MAKE SURE we know what a DAILY CROSS really is, and figure out HOW TO GET ONE.

pelathais · #**107** 07-13-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

So I've repented, confessed Christ, and have been baptized (in the name of Jesus). I am seeking the Holy Ghost. Does God see me as His?

Be confident that He does: Philippians 1:6

stasis · #**108** 07-13-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

So I've repented, confessed Christ, and have been baptized (in the name of Jesus). I am seeking the Holy Ghost. Does God see me as His?

Nothing you can do will cause God to see you as his. Only what GOD can do TO YOU will cause you to be his. He chooses whomever he wills, we don't choose him unless he has chosen to drag us toward him, causing us to choose him.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

In fact, if you are his, it's because he determined it before time.

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Also, if you're his, your life will be filled with the pains of bearing the cross until the day you die, toward conforming you to the image of Christ. This is a true baptism which will straighten you (put you in dire straights) until it be accomplished (till the day you die).

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

So, you wont even be 'saved' until you die. But if you are predestined, you are ordained to salvation. 'Salvation' is a life-long process. The english 'Saved' is the greek word 'Sozo', which means to be safely carried from one point to another, remaining preserved (in this case, spiritually).

Also, you say you've 'confessed' Christ. 'Confess' is the Greek 'homologeo' (homo - same, logos-word - To speak the same words as, or to be in the same words with (follow commandments, which are anything Christ said with an imperative mood (an order) - such as 'Follow me')). So, to confess Christ, you have to speak the same words as him and follow his commandments. That includes all the hard things like calling down false teachers when you know they're lying no matter how much it may hurt your life or your standard of living (as Christ did to the Pharisees), and having to bear your cross to be his disciple, etc., etc.... WHICH YOU WILL DO, IF YOU ARE HIS, because God will IMPOSE it upon you!

GrowingPains · #**109** 07-13-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stasis

Nothing you can do will cause God to see you as his. Only what GOD can do TO YOU will cause you to be his. He chooses whomever he wills, we don't choose him unless he has chosen to drag us toward him, causing us to choose him.

So, you wont even be 'saved' until you die. But if you are predestined, you are ordained to salvation. 'Salvation' is a life-long process. The english 'Saved' is the greek word 'Sozo', which means to be safely carried from one point to another, remaining preserved (in this case, spiritually).

Also, you say you've 'confessed' Christ. 'Confess' is the Greek 'homologeo' (homo - same, logos-word - To speak the same words as, or to be in the same words with (follow commandments, which are anything Christ said with an imperative mood (an order) - such as 'Follow me')). So, to confess Christ, you have to speak the same words as him and follow his commandments. That includes all the hard things like calling down false teachers when you know they're lying no matter how much it may hurt your life or your standard of living (as Christ did to the Pharisees), and having to bear your cross to be his disciple, etc., etc.... WHICH YOU WILL DO, IF YOU ARE HIS, because God will IMPOSE it upon you!

Interesting opinions here. Calvin'sPredestination, and seeming contradictions: I have no action/responsibility for my salvation, only if He calls me (fatalism), but later, IF you confess, you will follow his commandments. We will do (I assume automatically like a robot) because He will impose it.

stasis · #**110** 07-13-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowingPains

Interesting opinions here. Calvin'sPredestination, and seeming contradictions: I have no action/responsibility for my salvation, only if He calls me (fatalism), but later, IF you confess, you will follow his commandments. We will do (I assume automatically like a robot) because He will impose it.

Nothing YOU can do will make you his, but what Christ does THROUGH YOU, and to you. Through Christ we can do all things, like be persecuted and bear a cross. Christ imposes his instruction upon us, and makes us DOERS, and this by his grace alone in choosing us before time, to form us into doers of his Word.

So... bearing your cross and doing what Christ says is "no action/responsibility". Yeah, that makes sense. Following Christ is "doing nothing". Being conformed to the image of Christ throughout your entire life, which involves suffering, is sitting around doing "nothing". I speak in sarcasm.

What do you do to a robot? You write an instruction upon it's circuitry. What does God do to us? He writes his laws upon our hearts. Yes, if you are God's you WILL, LIKE A ROBOT, DO HIS WILL. We are spiritual robots.

Opinion is 'opinios', which means, to think for one's self. I have no opinion but the Word of God. We must crucify our opinions and let God's Word think for us.

No, it isn't fatalism, it's blood baptism and the sovereign power of God alone, who stands above man's will.

What say you? It's unfair for God to choose one above another? What man calls unfair, God calls Grace, intervening through Christ the intercessor. What is fair? Fair is EVERYONE GOING TO HELL.