Tithe-vs-Paying Your Bills

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, in fact, I think you haven't studied it.

You obviously don't know that this argument is neither biblical nor historical. Genesis alone contains money in 32 texts and the word occurs 44 times before the holy tithe is described in Leviticus 27. Gold is in Genesis 2:12. The words jewelry, gold, silver and shekel also appear often from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

Abram was very rich in silver and gold (Gen 13:2); money in the form of silver shekels paid for slaves (Gen 17:12+); Abimelech gave Abraham 1000 pieces of silver (Gen 20:16); Abraham paid 400 pieces of silver for land (Gen 23:9-16); Joseph was sold for silver pieces (Gen 37:28); slaves bought freedom (Lev 25:47-53). Court fines (Ex 21 all; 22 all), sanctuary dues (Ex 30:12+), vows (Lev 27:3-7), poll taxes (Num 3:47+), alcoholic drinks (Deu 14:26) and marriage dowries (Deu 22:29) included money.

Joseph gave Benjamin 300 pieces of silver (Gen 45:22). According to Genesis 47:15-17 food was used for barter only after money had been spent. Banking and usury laws exist in Leviticus even before tithing.

Therefore the argument is false. Yet the holy contents from Leviticus to Luke never include money from non-food products and trades.

Even archeologists can verify that ancient Summarians, Egyptians, and Hittites had "money" long before the time of Abraham and weren't "agricultral bartering" societies.

You obviously haven't studied it.

Indeed.

Also I provided links in one of these threads to a past thread where I dealt with this.

[Aquila]

What's really sad is how very bright people are spiritually and emotionally brow beaten into not only allowing this kind of extortion in their own lives... but into even defending it. They don't want to accept that they're being manipulated by a false teaching and thereby being fleeced.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What's really sad is how very bright people are spiritually and emotionally brow beaten into not only allowing this kind of extortion in their own lives... but into even defending it. They don't want to accept that they're being manipulated by a false teaching and thereby being fleeced.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, in fact, I think you haven't studied it.

You obviously don't know that this argument is neither biblical nor historical. Genesis alone contains money in 32 texts and the word occurs 44 times before the holy tithe is described in Leviticus 27. Gold is in Genesis 2:12. The words jewelry, gold, silver and shekel also appear often from Genesis to Deuteronomy.

Abram was very rich in silver and gold (Gen 13:2); money in the form of silver shekels paid for slaves (Gen 17:12+); Abimelech gave Abraham 1000 pieces of silver (Gen 20:16); Abraham paid 400 pieces of silver for land (Gen 23:9-16); Joseph was sold for silver pieces (Gen 37:28); slaves bought freedom (Lev 25:47-53). Court fines (Ex 21 all; 22 all), sanctuary dues (Ex 30:12+), vows (Lev 27:3-7), poll taxes (Num 3:47+), alcoholic drinks (Deu 14:26) and marriage dowries (Deu 22:29) included money.

Joseph gave Benjamin 300 pieces of silver (Gen 45:22). According to Genesis 47:15-17 food was used for barter only after money had been spent. Banking and usury laws exist in Leviticus even before tithing.

Therefore the argument is false. Yet the holy contents from Leviticus to Luke never include money from non-food products and trades.

Even archeologists can verify that ancient Summarians, Egyptians, and Hittites had "money" long before the time of Abraham and weren't "agricultral bartering" societies.

You obviously haven't studied it.

I quote myself here ..Much of the transactions came from gold, jewelry, land deeds, etc.

maybe I should have mentioned silver too since it was precious metals. They did not have a currency outside of gold, silver, land possessions, and of course agricultural. I didn't say they are only agricultural barter societies but that was ONE of their main practices.

Our money today is backed by these things, but they did not have the type of currency we have, which is what we pay tithes off of.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What's really sad is how very bright people are spiritually and emotionally brow beaten into not only allowing this kind of extortion in their own lives... but into even defending it. They don't want to accept that they're being manipulated by a false teaching and thereby being fleeced.

I'm happy to pay the tithe and when I don't, my finances don't work out. you can say its false all you want, but you better check the Holy Ghost my friend. that being said I have no problem with the setup that was described in Ohio. Just don't knock that tithing is both scriptural and just because people preach "hell if you don't" does not go against the practice itself. I have never been extorted into paying tithes.

[The Lemon]

The studies that I have seen are impressive, and actually convict me that I really need to do more of it!

Belief is a powerful thing, to many heathenistic and cultish religions there system works and they feel strongly that there is evidence of the truth in their belief system. In some cases pointing out flawed knowledge is not enough to bring someone out of false doctrine or even doctrines of devils.

Likewise, there are many in the Christian faith that have long stood by certain doctrines, claiming the validity of said doctrine and again they feel there is proof sufficient to state their case - does this mean that all bible doctrines that are tought over the various pulpits of amereica and beyond are true and accurate...NO. Some are earnestly taught with sincerity with all the knowledge that the teacher/preacher may know.

So much of this is a heart issue and not a set formula that equals success or failure. No matter what set amount 10, 20, 30, percent etc., it is still imperative that if you believe there is truly a curse for not abiding by thw 10% then you are taking the entirety of the law, so that if you claim the curse of the law in one area, you then must live by the whole law.

Sometimes we live in our own little bubble and do not have the swath of experience with which to draw from. There are obviously folks who tithe and are blessed, and there are those who give generously but do not tithe and they are blessed. Both of these folks may indeed suffer hardship financially at some point - does that mean God abandoned one or the other...NO. The rain falls on the just and unjust alike, its called life.

I have seen a whole lot more Biblical precidence given for free will offerings and not a NT law to tithe then the other way around. The law of sowing and reaping is indeed true, and IMHO the blessing is directly linked with the heart of the giver and the gift to be given.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

The studies that I have seen are impressive, and actually convict me that I really need to do more of it!

Belief is a powerful thing, to many heathenistic and cultish religions there system works and they feel strongly that there is evidence of the truth in their belief system. In some cases pointing out flawed knowledge is not enough to bring someone out of false doctrine or even doctrines of devils.

Likewise, there are many in the Christian faith that have long stood by certain doctrines, claiming the validity of said doctrine and again they feel there is proof sufficient to state their case - does this mean that all bible doctrines that are tought over the various pulpits of amereica and beyond are true and accurate...NO. Some are earnestly taught with sincerity with all the knowledge that the teacher/preacher may know.

So much of this is a heart issue and not a set formula that equals success or failure. No matter what set amount 10, 20, 30, percent etc., it is still imperative that if you believe there is truly a curse for not abiding by thw 10% then you are taking the entirety of the law, so that if you claim the curse of the law in one area, you then must live by the whole law.

Sometimes we live in our own little bubble and do not have the swath of experience with which to draw from. There are obviously folks who tithe and are blessed, and there are those who give generously but do not tithe and they are blessed. Both of these folks may indeed suffer hardship financially at some point - does that mean God abandoned one or the other...NO. The rain falls on the just and unjust alike, its called life.

I have seen a whole lot more Biblical precidence given for free will offerings and not a NT law to tithe then the other way around. The law of sowing and reaping is indeed true, and IMHO the blessing is directly linked with the heart of the giver and the gift to be given.

Great post.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I'm happy to pay the tithe and when I don't, my finances don't work out. you can say its false all you want, but you better check the Holy Ghost my friend. that being said I have no problem with the setup that was described in Ohio. Just don't knock that tithing is both scriptural and just because people preach "hell if you don't" does not go against the practice itself. I have never been extorted into paying tithes.

I think he did check his Holy Ghost. Because the word says that the Holy Ghost would guide us into all truth. Nothing is mentioned in the Word of God as making His of none effect but one thing. Tradition.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I'm happy to pay the tithe and when I don't, my finances don't work out. you can say its false all you want, but you better check the Holy Ghost my friend. that being said I have no problem with the setup that was described in Ohio. Just don't knock that tithing is both scriptural and just because people preach "hell if you don't" does not go against the practice itself. I have never been extorted into paying tithes.

Stop paying it and try to be used, what do you think will happen?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Stop paying it and try to be used, what do you think will happen?

Well I would be breaking two principles I live by

1. One I would be missing the blessing of God that he has continually gave me through the years by being faithful in tithes and giving.

2. Two I would be going against the teaching of the spiritual authority the Lord has placed me under for my soul.

The end result would not be good