Salvation for the deaf and mute?: Say it ain't so.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

I would be careful of even an insinuation of another being a fool. It is written, "the fool has said, in his heart there is no God." The Word of God defines an atheist as a fool and no one else. Brother, I am not an atheist. I am a fellow believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I have been baptized in his name and fill with His glorious Spirit. It is also an Ad hominem fallacy to critcize the person of an argument and not directly talk about the argument itself.

Just to clarify, this is not a true statement. The Bible uses the word 'fool' 69 times in several different ways, most of them in the book of Proverbs. For instance:

Pr 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.


Carry on.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

Just to clarify, this is not a true statement. The Bible uses the word 'fool' 69 times in several different ways, most of them in the book of Proverbs. For instance:

Pr 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.


Carry on.

Obviously the word fool is used in various different ways. The scripture you cited does not change the meaning of the verse I cited. Jesus warned of talking about foolishness of a person. Why? Because by so doing the person who called the other a fool was placing judgement upon the other. What cause judgement to come upon a person. UNBELIEF -- As Jesus said he that believes not is condemned already.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Obviously the word fool is used in various different ways. The scripture you cited does not change the meaning of the verse I cited. Jesus warned of talking about foolishness of a person. Why? Because by so doing the person who called the other a fool was placing judgement upon the other. What cause judgement to come upon a person. UNBELIEF -- As Jesus said he that believes not is condemned already.

You said that a fool was defined as an atheist only. I was simply saying that what you said wasn't correct. There are all kinds of fools, even among believers. Remember the ten virgins? All were believers, but 5 were foolish.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You said that a fool was defined as an atheist only. I was simply saying that what you said wasn't correct. There are all kinds of fools, even among believers. Remember the ten virgins? All were believers, but 5 were foolish.

They were foolish because they were unprepared. They were unprepared because they had UNBELIEF. Fool and Foolishness always have there root in unbelief. A person makes a mistake because he or she believed the wrong belief. The virgins were not fools but they acted like fools because they were not prepared (unbelief). He that believes is not condemned but he that believes not is condemned already. The unbeliever (the person who denies the work of Jesus) is acting foolish and if he she continues to act that way will be a fool because he or she has denied the only true and wise God.

Our English word has become loosely associated with silly actions. Actions that are not accepted by the norm. Nevertheless, this is why we may see some inconsistantcies with the English translation, but fool always has its root in unbelief.

[jaxfam6]

There is also a saying about speaking from both sides of your mouth and one about a forked tongue.

I think my point was made and no one was called a fool. It was a thought I had when I read your post.

then there is a saying about if the shoe fits.

by he way, I am not using Bible to back those sayings, just pointing out that there are sayings along those lines. Pretty much everyone has heard them and know what they mean.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

There is also a saying about speaking from both sides of your mouth and one about a forked tongue.

I think my point was made and no one was called a fool. It was a thought I had when I read your post.

then there is a saying about if the shoe fits.

by he way, I am not using Bible to back those sayings, just pointing out that there are sayings along those lines. Pretty much everyone has heard them and know what they mean.

Why do you always insist on attacking the character of a person instead of addressing the real argument?

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Why do you always insist on attacking the character of a person instead of addressing the real argument?

Do you feel your character is under attack? What issue was there?

I don't remember attacking anyone. I do remember however responding to some very pointed attacks on three-steppers. My response was with some old sayings that are not even Biblical. Those seem to have hit a nerve with you, from this comment here.

What exactly is the realment? I was not arguing with anyone, simply stating a things as I saw them.


got the point yet? well since I do not think you do let me lay it out for you.

You feel threatened by a few comments and yet you do not see how your comments were hurtful to others. You lumped whole groups of people together with an assumption that you have made. You spoke as if you were the authority on what everyone believes. That happens to be a problem with both sides. One-steppers assume this or that about three-steppers and spout it out as truth. Then when confronted with it they say they never did that. Then three-steppers assume something about one-steppers and spout it off. See it isn't a whole groups opinion and it isn't what you think or believe that matters. It is what God thinks. When we are not showing God's love and are attacking our brothers and sisters, rather they agree with us or not, we are not showing God's love and if we do not show God's love we are not showing fruit.

You say that you don't think many three-stepps whole believe what they say. Someone else says that one-steppers don't truly believe what they say. Truth of the matter is both are right. If you truly believe that all it takes is Belief on Jesus then you would not encourage those to get baptized in Jesus name and pray with them to receive the Holy Ghost. You can say you believe till the cows come home and that still will not save you. You have to put some action to your faith. The Bible says that faith without works is dead. Also, show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works. It is not just about faith, you have to put some feet to that faith for it to be real.
on the flip side
If somone comes to God and repents and is not baptized the same day and filled with the Holy ghost and goes out and gets killed, I believe our God is just and that person is probably going to be in heaven. I do think however that if that person does not die and never follows through with the rest of it they probably are not truly saved and will not make it. The reason? they never put feet to their faith.

[bkstokes]

Jaxfam6

I was not offended by your comments, nor am I offended by your tone. Forgive me if I have caused you frustration. I in no ways want my liberty in Jesus Christ to be a stumbling block for you or anyone else. I acknowledge also that I was mistaken in that I should have not taken your comment within a biblical context. I assumed that all of us would try to line our lives and words up to biblical principles.

I consistently kept bringing your comments up because they were not addressing the point of the topic. Of course I have faith towards baptism and Holy Ghost baptism. That has never been a question never. Just because one has faith towards something doesn't mean that he or she believes the topic is essential for salvation. Jesus had faith in the Sabbath but he didn't believe that the jewish people had to follow the Sabbath to the degree the pharisees defined it.

[SDG]

Bump.

[Steve Epley]

I personally have seen the deaf and dumb recieve the HGB speaking in tongues cased closed. I was there when it happened and the lady was not healed.