Who is more holy?

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Felicity

So there ya go bro. I have lots of company.

Do you believe that "numbers" confirm proper application of scripture?

How do you, me or any of them KNOW that using scriptural direction in these instances won't be the difference between a functional and dysfunctional church? How do you, me or any or them KNOW that this action won't help them "get it"? We don't, because it's not done. Well, it's not done in my neck of the woods and apparently not in your's or those of the number you mentioned.

In this era of time and in our culture including church culture it doesn't work very well to bar the doors of the church to individuals who won't do what they're told and won't heed admonition.

Culture has put the Church in a pickle, hasn't it? Too bad, I say.

And if you do do that it's possible you could be dealing with lawyers and courts over discrimination issues.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the Church? I don't see any of our biblical examples worrying about it.

I know it can't be easy, but I do think we have too many who continue in sin hanging around. I am also glad that I am not the one who has to decide what to do in the end. I have direction for my part, and that's about all I can do. Unless, of course, I want to find a congregation that DOES adhere to this directive.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Do you believe that "numbers" confirm proper application of scripture?

Nope, not at all. I just made the point that in regard to this particular issue most of the posters including pastors would take this kind of action rarely.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't necessarily, but in regard to this particular teaching by Paul application is problematic. Apparently in that culture and time this was an acceptable way of handling things and the people of that culture were comfortable with it and understood it. Not so in our culture or most of our churches today.

I've seen where the pastor takes a saint to task over some issue where rebuke is necessary and other saints will rise to that person's defense and the whole church is affected. It's easier I think in churches where the pastor has been there over a long period of time and where the people recognize pastoral authority to that extent.

We would need a lot of re-education in a lot of churches for the pastor to take this kind of action and not meet with resistance .... in most cases anyhow.

[Sister Alvear]

Something I thought about is God KNOWS the heart we do not...If I err I hope it will always be on the side of mercy...

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by OGIA

How do you, me or any of them KNOW that using scriptural direction in these instances won't be the difference between a functional and dysfunctional church? How do you, me or any or them KNOW that this action won't help them "get it"? We don't, because it's not done. Well, it's not done in my neck of the woods and apparently not in your's or those of the number you mentioned.

I can't imagine that removing a member or members of the church who are sinning is going to make the church more functional.

Who defines sin? What kind of sin are you talking about? Hair cutting? Makeup? Not paying tithes? Prayerlessness?

To me one of the prime reasons to put someone out of the church would be if they're causing division. This creates more problem than anything else pretty much.

What about young people who are failing morally? We put them out too? Even if they're still living at home with parents who attend church?

Like I said it was a different day 2000 years ago. I'm not saying either ..... so don't put the words in my mouth .... that culture is a reason to not obey Scripture. Not saying that at all.

[Sister Alvear]

Such an insight! blessings to you mu friend.

[Sister Alvear]

I know churches that have destroyed whole families because of the pastor's lack of wisdom.
God not only knows how many souls we have won He also knows how many we have cast out of the Kingdom...

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Who defines sin? What kind of sin are you talking about?

Scripture defines sin and Paul covers a large number of them.

To me one of the prime reasons to put someone out of the church would be if they're causing division. This creates more problem than anything else pretty much.

But, it's the unseen divisions, in the Spirit, that most don't see and I think cause the dysfunction, making great churches mediocre or less.

What about young people who are failing morally? We put them out too? Even if they're still living at home with parents who attend church?

I know of a church that's had to do this with one young person. Repeated sin without repentance. The parents finally put this one out of their house, too. This example lets me know that Paul was more proactive than reactive, and I think it's just the opposite today.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

If I err I hope it will always be on the side of mercy...

That is my hope, too, sister.

[tbpew]

OGIA,
help me out here.
the scripture says

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple

I just do not see the foolishness of those who continue in the base works of the flesh as being all that threatening to the well-being of the assembly.

It's the folks who scheme to bring accussation between the brethren that are crafty and subtil using good words and fair speeches.

What is the lifestyle you are seeing (or imagining) is getting a "pass" in our modern assemblies?

Originally Posted by tbpew

OGIA,
help me out here.
the scripture says


I just do not see the foolishness of those who continue in the base works of the flesh as being all that threatening to the well-being of the assembly.

It's the folks who scheme to bring accussation between the brethren that are crafty and subtil using good words and fair speeches.

What is the lifestyle you are seeing (or imagining) is getting a "pass" in our modern assemblies?

You got to this one before me - kudos to you.