Can Apostolics be Democrats?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Apostolic Democrats believe in a social agenda that addresses the issues poor and middle class women face when finding themselves in a crisis pregnancy. For example, they support SCHIP and other initiatives that will cover children and pregnant women with health insurance. Many support state subsidized child care initiatives to offer incentive to work and assistance for poor working mothers who might need assistance. Subsidized housing for single mothers, and other TANF programs.

So yes Apostolic Democrats, and religious Democrats in general, believe in using America's tax dollars to assist women who might otherwise choose to abort. They understand that it may cost us something as a society and a nation to save lives by helping those who ordinarily would choose abortion.

Sadly the conservative position is just rhetoric. Ban abortion. That's all they offer. No help for poor or working class women with crisis pregnancies. You can be assured that if any program addressing the needs of women in a crisis pregnancy will cost money...a conservative will rather save their money than assist a woman in choosing life. Money often trumps life in the conservative mind. Most conservatives will tell you that if paying tax dollars to subsidize children's health insurance or child care will save nearly 300,000 unborn lives a year, they'd rather that 300,000 unborn children be aborted than use tax dollars to support said programs. That means...money trumps the value of life, plain and simple.

The Democrats proposed a legislative agenda that would have reduced America's abortion rate by 95% in ten years. The conservatives rejected it because it would have meant using tax dollars to do so. Tax dollars they wanted to give their corporate contributors in expensive tax subsidies and pork projects.

Gallup reports that 43% of registered Democrats are Pro-Life. Christian, and Apostolic, Democrats don't believe in just sitting by and watching a million children be aborted ever year. They believe that we as a nation must address the issues that cause women to consider and choose abortion.

I think it's highly unfair to paint Christian and Apostolic Democrats as "Demon Crats" etc. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

Here's a question. Before Chile began to lighten up on it's abortion law it had one of the highest abortion rates in the world (99 per every 1000 pregnancies) even though it had some of the toughest laws banning abortion. Belgium is VERY liberal and is a Pro-Choice nation, however, it has one of the lowest abortion rates in the entire world (8 per ever 1000 pregnancies). Which nation has more blood on it's hands?

The difference is that Belgium is addressing issues women and families face in the economic environment today. Chile wasn't. Abortion's legality wasn't even a factor in the over all abortion rate of the nation.

Those are the cold hard unemotional facts.

Nice try. It is primarily the conservatives who pour money into crisis pregnancy centers. Conservatives primarily espouse personal responsibility and liberals (including the majority of Democrats) believe that it is the government's responsibility to support every Tom, Dick and Harry whose poor choices have put them in the difficult situations they are in. Therefore, the "apostolic" democrats have these people "beholding" to them for their sustenance.

It is the "apostolic" democrats who believe that everyone in the US should have government sponsored health care no matter what poor choices put them into that condition. I for one vehemently oppose using my tax dollars for those who develop cancer from smoking or other life style choices. Everyone in the US has a choice as to how they are going to live their lives. It is not MY responsibility to care for them when their world comes crashing down.

Conservatives believe in helping people make better choices. Liberals support them after they make the bad choices and enable them to do so as well. If more people in this country were held responsible for their own actions, there would be less need to support them. IMO

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Thats all true and a good point.... But even if abortion were taken off the table (along with Gay marriage) the democrat party is still based entirely on envy. Making the person who makes a buck more an hour pay for whatever social program you happen to benefit from. Whether it is health care, retirement costs, school, or anything else. If you make 30 thousand a year and your neighbor makes 3 million, why is HE somehow beholden to pay for your kids education or your families health care?

I want to begin by saying, I love ya bro, but I disagree.

Most people are ignorant of the issues. Republicans like to keep them that way. For example Republicans like to slam graduated tax brackets by saying that they are unfair and make the wealthier pay more taxes than those in lower backets. While on the surface this is true and appears to be unjust a closer look will illustrate why it is perfect just and fair. The issue isn't "how much" one pays in taxes vs. another citizen. The issue is "tax burden". Every American should shoulder an equal amount of the "tax burden". That means that the tax burden felt by a middle class family must be equally carried by wealthier citizens. That requires that the tax burden be graduated to spread it equally among all citizens. Often you hear about a flat tax of 20% or so. That would be VERY unequitable and here's why. When one factors in the cost of living and then compares the burden carried by an individual making only $30k a year at 20% with the burden carried by one making $200,000 one will quickly see that the tax burden carried by the one making $30k a year is much higher. That's why our tax system is graduated and should stay graduated.

In actuality when one compares the steadily rising cost of living with stagnant wages that means there is less for savings. Thus retirement savings goes out the window just so families can afford to pay the bills and keep a decent roof over their heads in a decent area of town where they're not shot at.

Our founding fathers believed that all men were created equal and were endowed by their created with certain inalienable rights. The right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. They felt that to protect those rights all Americans should have a right to an education no matter how poor they were. And so our public school systems were born. Paying for the public school systems are in a very basic sense protecting the god given rights of all citizens. Yes, a child from a poor family has a right to an education their family would be unable to afford.

And the issue of health care should get the biggest laugh. Here goes...you're already paying for everyone else's health care! LOL That's why your premiums are so high. Here's how it works.... Let's make it simple and say you have a nation with 100 citizens. However 20 of them can't afford health insurance so, they don't have it. When they get sick or injured they just don't stay home and die...they go to the emergency room and receive treatment or examinations with initial treatments. These people don't have health insurance so guess what...they can't pay the bill. The hospital, being unable to collect the bill isn't just going to eat the loss...they are going to raise the cost of health care to pass the loss to the consumers. So the cost of health care increases. Well...guess what...as the cost of health care increases health insurance companies have to pay more in health care costs. So they increase health insurance rates and premiums. Well when they do this another 5 to 10 of your little nation with 100 citizens find they cannot afford health insurance. Now you have up to 30 people without health insurance. Guess what...when they're sick they too will go to the emergency room, they too will be unable to pay the bill, and the hospitals will again raise health care costs to cover the increased loss. Then the insurance companies will raise the cost of health insurance because the cost of health care increased. Then the premiums and rates rise again...AND another 5 or 10 citizens in your little 100 citizen country can't afford health insurance so they opt out. Now you have 40 of your 100 citizens uninsured. Guess what...they too will go to the emergency room when sick or injured and they too will be unable to pay the bill and the cycle will continue until only those who can afford to support the system with excessive health care premiums have insurance.

However, as nearly ever other Western nation has discovered, covering all citizens is less expensive than a private system where the cost of the uninsured is increasingly placed on the backs of those with insurance. For example right now in America the average family might pay $300 a month for a decent family plan with United Health Care. My friend in Canada only pays roughly what would equal $120 in taxes to the local provincial system for his health insurance. Hmmm....and he swears by the system and has never had a problem with it. Most of the horror stories of national health care systems are mythology that build on those few rare or special cases. For example my friend in Canada only knew one person that had to wait a couple months for an MRI. He suffered from leg pain in one of his joints. On the surface it sounds like he had to languish in pain for a couple months before he could get an MRI. But what you're not told is that he was given time off work (with pay by the way) and some strong pain killers until he could have his MRI. He was well taken care of.

So this is why even conservatives are increasingly considering a national health insurance program.

But my ultimate point is...YOU'RE ALREADY PAYING FOR MANY OF THE UNINSURED, LOOK AT YOUR RISING PREMIUMS...you're just paying in the most expensive way possible! LOL

Of course...the multi-billion dollar companies in the health insurance industry don't want you to understand their game because they're making billions of dollars in record profits off America's ignorance.

Also please note, nearly 18,000 Americans die each year because they cannot afford to continue treatments that could save their lives. Another 25,000 Americans declare bankruptcy every year because they cannot afford to pay their medical bills. Medical bills are the leading cause of backruptcy in the US. Men and women who have worked hard all their lives, raised families, and saved for retirement are being wiped out by the system we're currently under.

We can do better than this. And even though many who don't understand the situation are dead set against it...we will one day do better than this.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Nice try. It is primarily the conservatives who pour money into crisis pregnancy centers.

Wrong. Most crisis pregnancy centers receive more money in grants and funding from the government than charitable donations. If you cut their government funding they'd fold.

Conservatives primarily espouse personal responsibility and liberals (including the majority of Democrats) believe that it is the government's responsibility to support every Tom, Dick and Harry whose poor choices have put them in the difficult situations they are in. Therefore, the "apostolic" democrats have these people "beholding" to them for their sustenance.

Democrats also believe in personal responsibility. Gone are the days of a free ride. Remember it was President Clinton that cut the rolls and revolutionized welfare in this nation with welfare to work programs. The people just needed a hand to get on their feet...and that's what government assistance should be. It should never be something that is free without strong work requirements and limited duration. Remember....we are the human race and we're plagued by sin. Yes, people make wrong choices. However the morality of a nation can be gauged with how well it helps those who have fallen get back on their feet.

It is the "apostolic" democrats who believe that everyone in the US should have government sponsored health care no matter what poor choices put them into that condition. I for one vehemently oppose using my tax dollars for those who develop cancer from smoking or other life style choices. Everyone in the US has a choice as to how they are going to live their lives. It is not MY responsibility to care for them when their world comes crashing down.

It is your responsibility. It's all of our responsibility. You're a human being not a greed machine. Besides, you're already paying for the health care of a good number of the uninsured. Please be aware that nearly 18,000 people die a year because they cannot continue necessary treatments. Not all were smokers who, according to you, deserve to die.

Conservatives believe in helping people make better choices. Liberals support them after they make the bad choices and enable them to do so as well. If more people in this country were held responsible for their own actions, there would be less need to support them. IMO

I was raised in a Democratic family. I cannot ever remember being encouraged to or told that it's ok to make bad choices. However, I was taught that when people do make bad choices they must be lifted up. And often it takes more than charity.

[ChristopherHall]

There are nearly 45 million Americans without health insurance. The vast majority of them are elderly, working poor, and single parents. Interestingly, a large number are pastors too. Does your pastor have a right to health care without becoming bankrupt?

Remember we were endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. If one becomes ill with a life threatening disease do they have a right to live? If yes, they have a right to health care.

Please note, many of those unborn children we want to see born have a right to live....they too may one day need health care. Are they not entitled to it? Or do we only care about their right to live as long as they are unborn?

Funny...conservatives always talk about the right to live...until it might cost them an extra dollar or two in taxes. But what's real funny about the health insurance issue....the taxes paid into a national system would be less than the premiums they're currently paying! LOL

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Well, I suppose so...

at least as long as the Apostolic democrats have no problem watching 1.25 million babies being slaughtered in America each year. If you have no problem with that...I suppose these good Apostolic democrats are just fine.

Personally, with the Republican's committment to replace murderers Justices Ruth Ginsberg, John Paul Stevens and Steven Bryer on the Supreme Court, I would vote again for Bush, the 3rd term the 2nd worst president in the past 100 years who stuck to his guns like a iron man to get John Roberts and Samuel Alto on the Bench. These two, with three other Republican appointees, justice Clarence Thomas, Antonin Scalia, are now tilting the right for the first time in decades. Thus Roe vs. Wade is now threatened and has greatly been weakened.

If Apostolics vote in another Democrat we are certain to get at least two or three Justices who will lean the court back to left for decades to come, accelerating again the Abortion mills. Conservative Scalia will be retiring soon. A Democrat will appoint a baby killer to the bench. Guilt will rest with the Apostolics that vote him in.

Power to operate those mills flow from the decisions handed down by the liberal courts appointed by DEMON CRATS...yes, Apostolic Democrats.

ALL Republican candidates have pledged to appoint to the courts conservative/constructionist judges.

So, Apostolics...

while you are jumping and running the asiles, talking in tongues and SHOWING OUT...remember to VOTE YOU CONSCIENCE.

Republicans allow abortion as well, don't be fooled. If Bush was a conservative then he would have the backing to pull the plug on federal funding that goes to these abortion clinics. So, why doesn't he do it? Because he still needs the support of the democrats to pass a bill. He compromises, so would Guliani. So, I say you're right vote your conscience while you run the aisles, shout, and dance in church.

All republicans are "closet liberals", so I will most likely not vote for them as well as not voting for any democrat.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Jekyll

Cursed be the man who trusteth in the arm of flesh. Dem? Republican? I couldn't vote for Guiliani. Never in my life for Hitlary (my apologies to the poster who coined that name). If we don't vote, we have no right to voice our dissention nor do we uphold the right that our forefathers died to establish.
I must pray for the right decision on that day...then go tell somebody about Jesus.

Your kidding right? 300,000,000 Americans and I get stuck with these few as a choice? I have a right to complain because I sacrificed for your right to choose a bunch of losers.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Republicans allow abortion as well, don't be fooled. If Bush was a conservative then he would have the backing to pull the plug on federal funding that goes to these abortion clinics. So, why doesn't he do it? Because he still needs the support of the democrats to pass a bill. He compromises, so would Guliani. So, I say you're right vote your conscience while you run the aisles, shout, and dance in church.

All republicans are "closet liberals", so I will most likely not vote for them as well as not voting for any democrat.

To All My Democrat Friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only Americain the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, cree d, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee’.


To My Republican Friends:

Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

There are nearly 45 million Americans without health insurance. The vast majority of them are elderly, working poor, and single parents. Interestingly, a large number are pastors too. Does your pastor have a right to health care without becoming bankrupt?

Remember we were endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness. If one becomes ill with a life threatening disease do they have a right to live? If yes, they have a right to health care.

Please note, many of those unborn children we want to see born have a right to live....they too may one day need health care. Are they not entitled to it? Or do we only care about their right to live as long as they are unborn?

Funny...conservatives always talk about the right to live...until it might cost them an extra dollar or two in taxes. But what's real funny about the health insurance issue....the taxes paid into a national system would be less than the premiums they're currently paying! LOL

This is really funny...in a wierd kind of way.

Much of the deceived public by the notion of Universal Health Care are enthusiastic about their six Democrat candidates who have promised that they would work toward getting it implemented.

It is really funny and absurd too.

The Universal Health Care plan works like the Universal Auto Insurance plan. If you drive a car on public thoroughfares, you MUST have insurnace. The government is not going to give it to you FREE. You must find a provider to buy it from.

That's really NEAT. So it is with Universal Health Care. The government will MANDATE, under their proposals that YOU BUY IT. When Hillary is pressed on the question how it is that she feels that the government can MANDATE that every citizen BUY health care for themselves, she says, "The same way that the government is already MANDATING that Auto Insurance be bought."

When asked about what kind of penalties would she suggests to be imposed upon an objector that refuses it, she said, "That is something that would have to be negotiated and worked out in Congress."

The Democrat party is the party of slavery. If you like bondage, then that is the party for you. Go for it. Personally, I don't like government mandates.

But anyway, thinking back over the Auto Insurance that the government mandated I recall how cheap the insurance was before the mandate. After the insurance companies bought and paid for enough Democrat politicians they finally got that law passed, state by state. What happened to the prive of Auto Insurance? I remember it WELL. The price went right through the roof.

What do you think will happen to the cost of Health Insurance when it becomes mandated by the government that you buy it? Right! The price will go right through the roof. Why? Well just think about it. It is really simple economics...good economics when the health providers and drug companies have the majority politicians in their shirt pockets...completely bought and paid for by the likes of George Soros and all other stock manipulators who care NOTHING about health care for all Americans but only for their balooning portfolios.

Meanwhile, with the climbing costs as the results of government mandates, in the name of "caring" and "compassion" (what a crock) are forcing more and more companies off shore. Under the Clinton Administration they begin leaving by the droves. Do you remember the story of Studebaker car company?

If you think that the Democrat party is in love with you...I hardly know what to say. When they realize that they can stay in power by giving the keys of the treasury to the insane for a vote, they will do it.

Meanwhile, there is not much left of our nation that was established on the principles of the free enterprise system. Little will be left for our children and their children. Personal responsibility is an outdated idea, nanny government to take care of us all is very much in vogue in the Democrat party.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman

Republicans allow abortion as well, don't be fooled. If Bush was a conservative then he would have the backing to pull the plug on federal funding that goes to these abortion clinics. So, why doesn't he do it? Because he still needs the support of the democrats to pass a bill. He compromises, so would Guliani. So, I say you're right vote your conscience while you run the aisles, shout, and dance in church.

All republicans are "closet liberals", so I will most likely not vote for them as well as not voting for any democrat.

Don't think that I've read anything less informed that this.

To pull the funding would take 60% of both the House and Senate...not 51%. Neither the Democrats or the Republicans have that kind of majority. Neither is there enough majority of the House, Senate, and States to pass a Constitution Admendment that would codify against RIGHT TO KILL, and DEFINING MARRIAGE between one man and one woman.

The last Constitutional Admendment that passed both House and Senate, then presented to each of the 50 States for ratification was the HUGELY popular Equal Rights Amendment which narrowly failed. Therefore the Republicans alone do not have the power to enact such restrictions. If it were left up to Republican Presidents alone, these evil practices would have been abolished long ago...even before they got started. Ronald Reagan was OUTRAGED by the practice of killing these little babies before they were born. So has every Republican president since Roe V. Wade. Democrat presidents LOVE IT...THEY LOVE TO KILL those babies and support the murderous women's RIGHT TO KILL both by voice, vote, legislature, and appointment to the Bench.

Not so with the Republican presidents. They voice against it, the veto further legislation, and appoint men such as Scalia, Thomas, Alito, and Roberts to the bench that WILL FIGHT IT, tooth and nail. Already, with one swing vote has the DEMOCRAT partial birth abortion been struck down by a 5 to 4 vote.

What a horrible practice the Democrats defended. Partial birth... My God! Even late term. Too gruesome to even think about on a fully developed child at the time of birth...puncturing the skull of a little baby whom the Lord of heaven chose to send into the world, then suck the little darling's brains out and collpase its skull. Some of the more gruesome practices have included chopping of the head of the baby as it was being born.

Got the Democrats...not the republicans...and all the jumping, asile running and shouting Apostolics who voted for them to THANK FOR THAT!

But the Democrats are so livid and demonically possesed against any judge that they perceive to be conservatice/constructionst. Remember Judge Bork? Short memory, huh? Too bad that he let it be known how he felt about the RIGHT TO KILL, standing tall for RIGHT TO LIFE. Since it was known how he felt before the confirmation hearings the Democrats marshalled every evil force to defeat his nomination. Well, they did. We lost probably one of the greatest justice appointment to the Bench since Oliver Wendell Holmes appointed by Teddy Rosevelt.

I've said it before, it is worth saying again. I would again vote for possibly the 2nd worse president in the last 100 years for a 3rd term and 4th term, even if it meant that USA would be plunged into the greatest depression in its HISTORY if it meant that we could replace Ruth Beta Ginsberg, now 77 and John Paul Stevens, now 87 with another Thomas, or Scalia. Think of the millions of babies that would be saved from the great American HOLOCAUST. I would prefer a DEPRESSION SO SEVERE IT WOULD POP OUT THE EYEBALLS, than to see this great WICKNESS to continue.

So, if you Apostolics vote in another DEMOCRAT as president, he will replace John Paul Stevens and Ruth Beta Ginzberg with exactly their type, leaving NO HOPE that Roe v. Wade will be overturned. THE RIGHT TO KILL will remain in tact. If there are 10,000 Apostolics that vote in a Democrat and there are a million babies killed every year, an annual rate of 10,000 slaughtered children per year can be attributed to your guilt. Therefore, it becomes a MORAL issue for each and every Apostolic.

No, this is not an economic issue, even though there was a dip in abortions in 1997. It is the conscience of America issue. The Republicans know it. Most are determined to fight the RIGHT TO KILL. I will place my support to anyone or anything that will commit to cease this horrible, evil, wicked practice by getting the Judicial branch of Government working like it should. The Republicans are commited to it.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

...That's really NEAT. So it is with Universal Health Care. The government will MANDATE, under their proposals that YOU BUY IT.
...
Meanwhile, there is not much left of our nation that was established on the principles of the free enterprise system. Little will be left for our children and their children. Personal responsibility is an outdated idea, nanny government to take care of us all is very much in vogue in the Democrat party.

Ted Kennedy once explained how health insurance will will be provided and cost us nothing. He said, "If you work, your employer will pay for it. If you don't work, the government will pay for it."

I am retired from GE and both my wife and I are on Medicare. Right now, $93.50 is deducted from each of our Social Security checks each month for Medicare. That amounts to $187 per month for both of us or $2244 per year. In addition, we have a supplemental insurance provided by GE to cover some of the stuff the government insurance does not cover. That costs us $208 per month or $2496 per year. So we are currently paying $4740 per year for medical insurance. GE negotiates insurance costs and keeps them low for us but they go up every year. We have already been informed that the deduction from our Social Security checks for Medicare will go up in 2008 as they have in previous years.

As seniors, we see our expenses go up each year as the income remains fixed. This results in what is like a cut in income for us each year. I shudder to think how much of a cut we will take under a Socialist/Democratic administration as they "provide" us with universal health care.