((((UPC FLASH)))))) Announcing the Next Possible General SUPT. Of the UPC!!!

[Nahum]

Speaking of mismanagement, I especially loved it when I was a struggling home missionary and found out that, immediately after General Conference, and a record offering, all HM dept. employees were rewarded with an all expenses paid trip to Branson for a "planning session" complete with some very nice gifts.

[HangingOut]

That is totally wrong and designed for wealth.
They should operate within a budget and no more. Under that system, they end up with money they have to figure out how to spend.

Originally Posted by Ferd

I do know that FMD does take some % for administrative use. it exceeds 10% but is not 20%. if you send any missionary any money via FMD, they will take that %.

as to the hypocracy issue, there have been many charges thru the years. there are ongoing issues even now. As to their validity, it seems to me, that depends on which side of the debate you are on.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Could it be the IAM foundation that you are talking about. This particular effort was started by Jonathan Alvear, and has been around for quite a while. It has nothing to do with the UPC or Tulsa. He is AMF. But I do know that a lot of UPCI ministers are tired of the beurocracy and deceit of the FMD, and have rerouted their funds to the missionaries through IAM.

I think that IF the main goal is that the missionary gets the funds he needs to fulfill his calling, then the goal is reached no matter where it comes from. I personally will send nothing through the FMD.

Originally Posted by PreacherV

St. Matthew, could you elaborate on the bolded portion? Perhaps give me an example?

I can't remember the group that sent me that info, although that name sounds familiar for some reason. I could have just saw it in the bible,though. I just know I had never received anything from them before and then suddenly, after GC, it appeared in my mailbox.

I agree that so long as the missionary gets the money, the source doesn't matter. But IMO the org will not sit idly by if huge amounts of finance are being siphoned off. They will figure out a way to regenerate their funds.....Just hoping they don't see raising our dues as the best short-term solution.

Originally Posted by Ferd

I do know that FMD does take some % for administrative use. it exceeds 10% but is not 20%. if you send any missionary any money via FMD, they will take that %.

as to the hypocracy issue, there have been many charges thru the years. there are ongoing issues even now. As to their validity, it seems to me, that depends on which side of the debate you are on.

The 10-20% includes Health and Retirement for some and for some missionaries the money exchange rates are hurting them big time. Many feared the Resolution for fear it would cause them to lose funding. Some of the numbers thrown out are not factual given the exchange rates. If you gave $10 in July, that $10 is now $8.50 (or less) in some markets.

No one should completely drop Missionaries and should use IAM as an alternative if they have issues in their mind with FMD.

I don't think the issues of FMD are all about money but that is a closed subject for this board....

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

The 10-20% includes Health and Retirement for some and for some missionaries the money exchange rates are hurting them big time. Many feared the Resolution for fear it would cause them to lose funding. Some of the numbers thrown out are not factual given the exchange rates. If you gave $10 in July, that $10 is now $8.50 (or less) in some markets.

No one should completely drop Missionaries and should use IAM as an alternative if they have issues in their mind with FMD.

I don't think the issues of FMD are all about money but that is a closed subject for this board....

I don't have any "facts" to throw out, other than I do know someone who has had a close relationship with the foreign missions board over the years, and he doesn't have issues with how the money is handled.

Being as how he is the most financially responsible and fiscally prudent man that I know, I trust his opinion.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Speaking of mismanagement, I especially loved it when I was a struggling home missionary and found out that, immediately after General Conference, and a record offering, all HM dept. employees were rewarded with an all expenses paid trip to Branson for a "planning session" complete with some very nice gifts.

Interesting. Do you give to home missions?

[staysharp]

I just heard from a very well known long standing member of the upper UPCI and from the same state as JC. He said JC's health is really bad. He takes numerous insulin shots a day and has heart issues. He also recently had a terrible staff infection.

If this is the case, his health would definitely be an issue.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

I agree with you that if someone leaves and makes an attempt to have others leave as well, it IS division. It becomes grey when the individual doing the talking criticizes the UPC or criticizes principals, the organization notwithstanding.

I think Tulsa is the one shot that many on the Booker/Morton/Wilson side of things have to actually encourage UPC ministers to re-consider their affilliation. I don't believe there will be another (global) opportunity.

Why do you include Bro Morton in this. I have not heard any credible information linking him to the Tulsa initiative. Neither his letter (posted on AFF) nor his address at WCC (I was there and heard it first hand) encouraged anyone to leave the UPC. In fact he stated that it was something that every man would have to decide for himself. Neither one made any reference to the Tulsa meeting in any manner I could see.

Not a big deal just seeking accuracy and don't think it is quite fair to link him at this point particularly in a negative context.

[Bullwinkle]

I had the opportunity to work on a project with JC.
Just some observations.
* When JC was running HMD it was the class of the organization. It was cutting edge for the UPCI. Other divisions were taking their cues from the innovations coming out of HMD.
* JC knows how to raise money and knows how to spend money. Whether this is good or bad depends on your vantage point.
* The man has a heart for revival and growth. His passion for it comes through big time.
After having worked with him for a bit I have nothing negative to say.

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

Why do you include Bro Morton in this. I have not heard any credible information linking him to the Tulsa initiative. Neither his letter (posted on AFF) nor his address at WCC (I was there and heard it first hand) encouraged anyone to leave the UPC. In fact he stated that it was something that every man would have to decide for himself. Neither one made any reference to the Tulsa meeting in any manner I could see.

Not a big deal just seeking accuracy and don't think it is quite fair to link him at this point particularly in a negative context.

I think that this is just an assumption that people make when they hear he is leaving. Most people outside of CA don't understand the dynamics of how the lines are drawn out here.

[ChicagoPastor]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Too bad there isn't anyone with General Board connections on AFF.

I would like to have an answer as to why this type of spending was allowed.

Especially the Whiteway Tabernacle building fiasco.

The building is not in use because thieves (in the worst part of St. Louis) continue to pillage it. Yet, over $200K was spent to renovate it.

I wonder how many church plants that could have helped?

PP bring it up next year at GC. Step to the mic and ask away. I'll back you up, I promise! lol (yea right!)