Christmas is pagan

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by houston

..Jeremiah 10 describes carved idols. Not Christmas trees.

The Christmas Tree is a representation of the idols of Baal/Saturn/Mithra/Nimrod/Osiris. His phallus, to be specific.

[Esaias]

Jeremiah 10:1-6 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: (2) Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. (3) For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. (4) They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. (5) They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. (6) Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

We are not to learn the way of the heathen, because their customs are vain. They are dismayed at the signs of the heaven, and we therefore should NOT be dismayed at the signs of the heaven. They cut trees out of the forest, deck them with silver and gold, and fasten it so that it stands upright, And therefore neither should we.

The Christmas custom of cutting a tree (or going to the tree lot and picking your tree), putting it in a stand in your living room, decorating it (especially with silver and gold tinsel and hanging balls), is a hold-over from the old days of pagan idolatry.

Why are present piled up at the foot of the tree? Because offerings were piled up at the base of an idol as an act of worship.

Consider Halloween (Samhain): The ancient idolatry involved putting a jack o-lantern with a candle inside out on your doorstep, or some variation thereof, in order to ward off evil spirits. Food offerings were left on the table or on the doorstep to placate the spirits of the dead and the demons who were believed to roam about that night, otherwise those spirits would bring trouble and vex your household.

The modern Halloween custom of jack o'lanterns, people dressing up (usually with a demonic or ghoulish costume) and going around "trick or treating" demanding a treat, otherwise they will paper your house or play some kind of trick on you, blah blah blah... all that is pagan idolatrous customs continuing into the modern era.

Christmas is no different.

[houston]

Good post. Thanks.

[Aquila]

I think we can all agree that many of our cultural "holidays" and traditions originated form ancient paganism. Many of us are so far removed from our pagan origins, these things are just cultural celebrations marking various times to contemplate Christian truths such as the resurrection, the incarnation, love & marriage, spiritual warfare, etc. The decorations and traditions are so far removed from their pagan origins, to us they seem like mere cultural decorations.

I'm glad Christianity did take dominion over these ancient pagan celebrations, redefining them, and redirecting the social consciousness of the nation to Christ.

Most people have their panties in a bunch over "ancient origins". But they don't see the "good" that has come out of our having taken dominion.

With Christmas, you'll notice that while the Catholic Church tried to redefine these holidays to steer the culture towards Christ, drunken revelries, riots, chaos, and all manner of debauchery continued...even as Christians tried to keep to religious observance. For many, celebrations like "Christmas" and "Halloween" were dreaded times of the year all the way up until the 1700's and 1800's. In America, many contemplated outlawing Christmas and Halloween. However, civic leaders decided to embrace them as business interests began capitalizing on them. The idea was to turn these nights of arson, riotous drunken revelries, and murder into a more civilized, family friendly, seasonal festivity. Yes, Capitalism did more to shape our modern family friendly approach to these holidays than the Catholic church ever did in their attempt to conquer them.

One reason to participate in these "holidays" at least to a limited degree is to keep the darker interests who would seize these holidays and return them to being terrible and dreaded times of mayhem at bay. I'd rather deal with trick-or-treaters, handing out candy, Christmas trees, Christmas pageants, Christmas gatherings, presents under the tree, etc. than deal with hiding my family in the basement as drunken revelers set fire to half the town.

I do get weary of some holidays though. I'm real tired of Halloween. I don't really like it, even though our family participates in festivities provided by local churches. Christmas is okay... it's beautiful, romantic, sentimental, and sometimes nostalgic. The materialism aggravates me. Easter gets to be just plain dumb with the bunny, eggs, and candies. Valentine's Day, now... I'll be honest... Valentine's Day is perhaps one of my favorites. I have no issue with civic holidays like the Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, etc. I also love Thanksgiving because it's time off work, good food, and family time.

I think if I didn't have kids and I lived alone, I'd be able to ignore the holidays for the most part without any love lost. But for the sake of the family, I do participate in these holidays to varying degrees.

As Christians, if we choose to ignore the cultural holidays that are popular in our culture... what holidays do we celebrate? Do we return to the Jewish festivals? Or do we just treat these days as any other while just ignoring the commotion? And if Christians chose to ignore these holidays and allow them to fully return to the chaos and debauchery they once were... is that better than taking dominion over them and redefining their focus?

I believe we have more dominion and authority than earthly Israel ever had. The NT doesn't seem to establish a firm teaching on days of observance. And it would seem that the NT is so universal in scope, that it would allow Christian communities in nearly any cultural context to take dominion, redefine, observe, or not observe, any given calendar with holidays they might find themselves contending with.

But that's just my take.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think we can all agree that many of our cultural "holidays" and traditions originated form ancient paganism. Many of us are so far removed from our pagan origins, these things are just cultural celebrations marking various times to contemplate Christian truths such as the resurrection, the incarnation, love & marriage, spiritual warfare, etc. The decorations and traditions are so far removed from their pagan origins, to us they seem like mere cultural decorations.

Which holiday celebrations mark various times to contemplate "spiritual warfare"?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Which holiday celebrations mark various times to contemplate "spiritual warfare"?

4th of July? Memorial Day? 9/11? Veteran's Day?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think we can all agree that many of our cultural "holidays" and traditions originated form ancient paganism. Many of us are so far removed from our pagan origins, these things are just cultural celebrations marking various times to contemplate Christian truths such as the resurrection, the incarnation, love & marriage, spiritual warfare, etc. The decorations and traditions are so far removed from their pagan origins, to us they seem like mere cultural decorations.

I'm glad Christianity did take dominion over these ancient pagan celebrations, redefining them, and redirecting the social consciousness of the nation to Christ.

Most people have their panties in a bunch over "ancient origins". But they don't see the "good" that has come out of our having taken dominion.

With Christmas, you'll notice that while the Catholic Church tried to redefine these holidays to steer the culture towards Christ, drunken revelries, riots, chaos, and all manner of debauchery continued...even as Christians tried to keep to religious observance. For many, celebrations like "Christmas" and "Halloween" were dreaded times of the year all the way up until the 1700's and 1800's. In America, many contemplated outlawing Christmas and Halloween. However, civic leaders decided to embrace them as business interests began capitalizing on them. The idea was to turn these nights of arson, riotous drunken revelries, and murder into a more civilized, family friendly, seasonal festivity. Yes, Capitalism did more to shape our modern family friendly approach to these holidays than the Catholic church ever did in their attempt to conquer them.

One reason to participate in these "holidays" at least to a limited degree is to keep the darker interests who would seize these holidays and return them to being terrible and dreaded times of mayhem at bay. I'd rather deal with trick-or-treaters, handing out candy, Christmas trees, Christmas pageants, Christmas gatherings, presents under the tree, etc. than deal with hiding my family in the basement as drunken revelers set fire to half the town.

I do get weary of some holidays though. I'm real tired of Halloween. I don't really like it, even though our family participates in festivities provided by local churches. Christmas is okay... it's beautiful, romantic, sentimental, and sometimes nostalgic. The materialism aggravates me. Easter gets to be just plain dumb with the bunny, eggs, and candies. Valentine's Day, now... I'll be honest... Valentine's Day is perhaps one of my favorites. I have no issue with civic holidays like the Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Veteran's Day, etc. I also love Thanksgiving because it's time off work, good food, and family time.

I think if I didn't have kids and I lived alone, I'd be able to ignore the holidays for the most part without any love lost. But for the sake of the family, I do participate in these holidays to varying degrees.

As Christians, if we choose to ignore the cultural holidays that are popular in our culture... what holidays do we celebrate? Do we return to the Jewish festivals? Or do we just treat these days as any other while just ignoring the commotion? And if Christians chose to ignore these holidays and allow them to fully return to the chaos and debauchery they once were... is that better than taking dominion over them and redefining their focus?

I believe we have more dominion and authority than earthly Israel ever had. The NT doesn't seem to establish a firm teaching on days of observance. And it would seem that the NT is so universal in scope, that it would allow Christian communities in nearly any cultural context to take dominion, redefine, observe, or not observe, any given calendar with holidays they might find themselves contending with.

But that's just my take.

We don't "take dominion" over idolatry by enshrining the rituals of Baal worship in a vain tradition that perpetuates them and keeps them going.

Israel was told to exterminate every vestige of paganism as they took dominion of Canaan. I'm sure there were dupes and dupettes saying "Oh hey these Canaanite rituals can be redeemed, we'll just make a few modifications and do them unto YHVH instead of Baal" but they were in the category of Balaam and Jezebel, not Caleb and Joshua.

And those rites became a snare to the people.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

We don't "take dominion" over idolatry by enshrining the rituals of Baal worship in a vain tradition that perpetuates them and keeps them going.

Israel was told to exterminate every vestige of paganism as they took dominion of Canaan. I'm sure there were dupes and dupettes saying "Oh hey these Canaanite rituals can be redeemed, we'll just make a few modifications and do them unto YHVH instead of Baal" but they were in the category of Balaam and Jezebel, not Caleb and Joshua.

And those rites became a snare to the people.

I think you misunderstood Aquila. As I understand him, we have essentially neutralized any original intentions of the pagan RCC by exalting Jesus at that time of year.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

We don't "take dominion" over idolatry by enshrining the rituals of Baal worship in a vain tradition that perpetuates them and keeps them going.

Israel was told to exterminate every vestige of paganism as they took dominion of Canaan. I'm sure there were dupes and dupettes saying "Oh hey these Canaanite rituals can be redeemed, we'll just make a few modifications and do them unto YHVH instead of Baal" but they were in the category of Balaam and Jezebel, not Caleb and Joshua.

And those rites became a snare to the people.

Furthermore, Jeremiah was speaking of carving idols from cut trees, not decorating a tree . There is nothing in the Bible that outlaws decorating plants.

[Amanah]

It is kind of sad that the way we observe Christmas reminds God of Baal Worship


WHAT GOD SAYS ABOUT GIFTS UNDER TREES...

Christmas may not be mentioned by name in the Bible but the words “gifts” and “tree” are in the same context with the sacrifice of children and the worship of idols. Read the following passage to see what God has to say about “gifts and trees.”

Ezekiel 20:26,28, 31 “I let them become defiled through their GIFTS---the sacrifice of every first-born...” vs. 28 “When I brought them into the land that I had sworn to give them and when they saw any high hill or any leafy tree, there they offered their sacrifices...” vs.31 “When you offer your GIFTS -the sacrifice of your sons in the fire, you continue to defile yourselves with all of your idols to this day...” In The New English Translation of the Bible , there is a notation about the phrase “every leafy tree”. They inform us that this expression refers to evergreens, “because they keep their leafy foliage throughout the year, providing apt symbolism for nature cults such as those practiced in Canaan.”

Anciently, the worship of Baal involved rites of human sacrifice of firstborn children up to the age of five by causing them to “pass through the fire to Molech.” “They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molech...” Jeremiah 32:34-35 The word Molech simply means King. The idol Molech had the shape of a bull and in fact, the English word bull is a corruption of the Hebrew Bal or Baal.

Read from the Mythology of all Religions, vol. 5. “Living infants and children were BURNED IN THE FIRE to the god Molech during this time. This was the time of the winter solstice (Dec. 25th) when those heathen were dismayed at the signs of heaven!”

Let’s examine Baal worship in detail, since according to the Bible, it was the very cause of the rejection of both Israel and Judah. “And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree....And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal. And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire....Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only. Also Judah kept not the commandments of the LORD their God, but walked in the statutes of Israel which they made. And the LORD rejected all the seed of Israel, and afflicted them, and delivered them into the hand of spoilers, until he had cast them out of his sight. II Kings 17:10, 16-20

Note that Baal’s places of worship were set up “in every high hill, and under every green tree” The two most important requirements for the alter of Baal were elevation and evergreen trees. If the land was flat, they would construct manmade “high places” called stepped pyramids, Ziggurats or Sun Temples. And according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the “green tree” mentioned here wasn’t just any old tree. They state that it means “any kind of evergreen tree, in its native soil.”

http://www.thechurchesofgod.com/Good...20Religion.htm