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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


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  #1071  
Old 10-11-2014, 05:17 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
I asked when tithing is said to have ceased. Thank you for your response.

However, your emphasis on "tithing" here is wrong. This chapter is not about tithing. It's about the pre-eminence of Christ and His priesthood. Incidentally, Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek prior to the covenant of circumcision. Also since we are on the subject of tithing and Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek, and all the Levites as well, and Christs priesthood is patterned after Melchizedek and Melchizedek received tithes then Christ's priesthood receives tithes as well. Thank you for allowing me to demonstrate that point.
Isn't that just an assumption? And if Christ receives tithes based on that assumption, wouldn't he receive them one time as Melchizedek did from Abraham, and would it not have to be on spoils? How do we pay them personally to our Melchizedek? Abraham paid them personally to Melchizedek and not to some go between. So your analogy really does not work here at all. Are you really building a doctrine for the New Testament church on this? Furthermore, where do we see where God commanded Abraham to pay these tithes, as in "instituting" this? Something that occurred once is not an institution. And if we are the children of Abraham by faith, aren't we also credited as Levi of having paid these tithes?
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  #1072  
Old 10-11-2014, 05:22 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
You obviously have no idea what "indulgences" were. And speaking about arrogance let's talk about yours shall we? Saying people have a, what was the phrase you used? Something about a "low moral character". Yeah that's not smug or arrogant is it?

See Luke 6:42.
When a question has been answered time and again, and a party , in a public forum continues to insist that the person did not answer the question (an answer that was laden with points), then there is only one conclusion to make about such a person. Such a person is not displaying integrity in my opinion. Rather they are showing a willingness to assassinate the character of someone that is exposing holes in their belief system. This is what politicians do. When they are losing on points in a debate they ask questions like, "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

Last edited by Originalist; 10-11-2014 at 06:02 PM.
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  #1073  
Old 10-11-2014, 05:26 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
Oh yes... Emotional appeals always trumps Bible.

Good grief. And still resorting to name-calling? Flaming Z has stood against your tirade for some time now. Yours and others as well. I would say that takes some courage.
Flaming continued to deny, in the most arrogant fashion, that questions had been answered that had been answered in depth.

As far as "emotional appeals" triumphing over scripture. On the contrary. The men I speak of abandoned the unscriptural emotional appeal of the tithe and embraced the truth of biblical free will giving.
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  #1074  
Old 10-11-2014, 05:42 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

So here's where we stand in this debate.

The pro-tithing crowd continues to ask "When were tithes abolished and who abolished them?" When the question is answered, then they switch tithes and hurl the hail Mary pass of the "pre Covenant" theory. This theory asserts that since Abraham paid tithes one time to a king/priest on the spoils of war, that this indicates that we in the New Testament are called to pay tithes of our weekly gross income to our Melchizedek through one of his many "go betweens" here on earth. The assumption is since Abraham paid tithes "pre-Law" that we must also. But then they will switch back to using the Levitical tithe as our model, invoking Malachi and accusing non-tithers of robbing God. It's hard to keep track of all of this switching of arguments.

The pro-tithe crowd , when confronted by the fact that the Levitical tithe has indeed been annulled, goes on the attack by asking when this pre law tithe was done away with.

A few points to consider......

1) If it was not done away with, who did the Children of Israel pay tithes to while in Egypt for 400 years?

2) Who did Abraham pay tithes to for the remainder of his life after paying them once to Melchizedek?

3) If this practice was never ended, then why do we not see Israel paying this tithe in addition to the Levitical tithe?

4) If we in the New testament are obligated to pay this tithe, then would it not be a one time tithe as was Abraham's? How do we send the tithe to our Melchizedek ?

5) If Levi is credited as having paid these tithes while unborn in the loins of Abraham, then why aren't we, the adopted sons of Abraham also credited as having paid this one time tithe?

6) If Abraham's tithe was a one time event, then how do modern tithe teachers insist that the tithe be paid on all income gained for our entire life span? Where do they find the authority to alter the example displayed by Abraham?

7) Question mainly for Pliny. You said....

Quote:
This chapter is not about tithing. It's about the pre-eminence of Christ and His priesthood.
If this is true, then why do so many pro-tithers cite this chapter as "New testament proof" for tithing? Will you now publically denounce this practice?

I assume that the pro tithers on this thread are people of the highest character and will gladly consider and answer each of these question. I offer them my heartfelt thanks in advance.

Last edited by Originalist; 10-11-2014 at 07:33 PM.
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  #1075  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:00 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
I have the courage to stand up to your bullying.
I have the courage to stand up to your intimidation.
I have the courage to stand up to your insults.
I have the courage to stand up for my beliefs.

I even had the courage to stand up against the death threats from Sean, that guy who wants to murder about 99% percent of all of Apostolic preachers because they teach the tithe.

I find it amusing when bullies play the bully card themselves when stood up to. You accuse people of being thieves and don't see how twisted it is. The character assassinations continue. So not only is Sean a thief, now he is a murderer. Wow.

Last edited by Originalist; 10-11-2014 at 06:08 PM.
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  #1076  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:19 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
I find it amusing when bullies play the bully card themselves when stood up to. You accuse people of being thieves and don't see how twisted it is. The character assassinations continue. So not only is Sean a thief, now he is a murderer. Wow.
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

That guys Sean hates us so much that he is going around praying that God kill us, is asking that God kills someone Love or Hate?
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  #1077  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:21 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

That guys Sean hates us so much that he is going around praying that God kill us, is asking that God kills someone Love or Hate?
Would you mind quoting him? Please show us the quote. Thanks.
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  #1078  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:25 PM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by Originalist View Post
Would you mind quoting him? Please show us the quote. Thanks.
I right now I have Sean on ignore, because he said that, so I do not see his posts anymore.

I would have to take him of ignore and then go back to search his posts, but if you insist I can do it but it will take some time to dig up his own words.
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  #1079  
Old 10-11-2014, 06:28 PM
Originalist Originalist is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
I right now I have Sean on ignore, because he said that, so I do not see his posts anymore.

I would have to take him of ignore and then go back to search his posts, but if you insist I can do it but it will take some time to dig up his own words.
Whatever you want to do.

But let me ask you...

Do you consider someone who does not pay 10% of their income to the church to be a thief robbing from God?
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  #1080  
Old 10-11-2014, 07:13 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Tithing…Is it a command?

Do I have to close this thread?
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