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  #1051  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:03 PM
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Originally Posted by mizpeh View Post
Yes, Boyd is a Christian. Here's a good video of his testimony. http://vimeo.com/65267407

or here is a shorter version at 26:05 -

http://whchurch.org/blog/8022/summer-qa
Doh! Brain cramp! I was confusing Boyd with someone else. Bart Ehrman. Not sure why.

I've read one of Boyd's books. "Is God to Blame", I think.
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  #1052  
Old 08-12-2013, 10:15 PM
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Re: Another small bible error.

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Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
This will not destroy anyone's faith, and there are no doubt both simple and complex explanations somewhere online intended to preserve your belief that the bible is inerrant, inspired, infallible.
....
Always. There are even explanations for Jehoiachin being 8 and 18 years old when he began his reign. (2 Chronicles 36:9 and 2 Kings 24:8.)
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  #1053  
Old 08-13-2013, 06:07 AM
MarcBee MarcBee is offline
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Re: Another small bible error.

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Always. There are even explanations for Jehoiachin being 8 and 18 years old when he began his reign. (2 Chronicles 36:9 and 2 Kings 24:8.)

Ah, another bible blunder, thanks Timmy! I am sure that SOME percentage of the dozens of bible blunders are NOT legitimate mistakes, but only appear to be. And that is the task of lifelong bible scholars to tease out which is which. However, there remains an even higher percentage that ARE legitimately mistaken. I remember well as a Christian, for about 15 years, I simply "knew" scripture was infallible, without question--every jot and tittle. But later on, I toggled to desperately wanting it to be correct and true, (which actually means let's find a plausible interpretation) so as to maintain my concept of inerrancy, inspiration, infallibility of the bible. At some tipping point, I realized I was lying to myself at intervals. (At that point, you are not "really believing," of course.) But Christianity, if nothing else, was supposed to be about maintaining truth and honesty of character--or at least my version of Christianity was. So, something allowed the same honesty, truth-seeking nature to emerge through my self-deception, or rather through the "mistaken assumption" (to put a nicer sheen on it.) At that point, I then better understood the words of Ghandi, maybe for the first time, "There is no higher god than truth."

Of course, many Christians maintain their beliefs while not requiring necessarily any sacred writings be literally "true", and these are generally the non-fundamentalists, non-literalists. But my way of thinking insisted that if I'm supposed to believe the bible came from a god, then a god should be able to "inspire" both the big picture and the little pictures that when put together compose the bigger pictures. Besides, I bought into it all under the claim that "it's all true." A god, if nothing else, could use his/her/its own omnipotency and omnisciency to not only "inspire" writings, but also to preserve and deliver it. That didn't happen, at least so far.
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Last edited by MarcBee; 08-13-2013 at 06:21 AM.
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  #1054  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:17 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
the Yahweh deity is probably as demonstrably blood-loving as the Moloch diety.

Yet Yahweh would eventually get his share of several kinds of fleshly sacrifices--he even says he likes the smell of burnt flesh (at the least from millions of animals.)

Animals are nice and kind but they are not human, unless you are a vegan since you were a baby, you have participated in the slaughter of thousands of animals (Chickens, Cows, Pigs, fish and what not) by eating them.

But I'm a-gonna really sacrifice my only begotten Son down the road!"
(At least for a few hours, and then the Really Sacrificed Son gets to return good as new ALSO.)

Jesus willingly went to Calvary, he submitted to this sacrifice.

But God didn't stop war hero Jephtha from killing his own daughter. I guess keeping a misguided promise is WAY more important to an omniscient, omnipotent god. After all, Jeptha made the roll call of the faithful (Hebrews 11:32.)

The fact that this story is even reported testifies to the truthfulness of the scripture, for other writings make their heroes noble beings who never did wrong, the Bible is honest about its heroes.

Jephtha was not required to make such a foolish oath or any oath. God is under no obligation to keep someone from doing a foolish thing. God is not a cop that prevents the thousands of murders that occur every year round the world.

Jeptha made the roll of faith not based on this event, but on his faith in God which is a different matter.


In history books, when a leader signs off on killing people, the killing is considered his doing, for example, "Hitler killed 6 million Jews."

At the hands of Joshua, God signed off on the killing of populations of men, women, babies, children, animals, what-have-you. Deut 20:16...thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth."

God is the giver and the taker of life whether he does it by natural means or by other methods, no one has a claim against him, for as the owner of life he is entitled to take it when he wishes.

Yahweh signed off on the killing of Job's first 10 children. Yeah, it's supposed to make everything okay that Job managed to have more children as replacements. Would you accept "replacements" for your dead family?

Yahweh did not sign off on the killing of Jobs children, it was the devil who made that decision, Job will still get to be with his children in paradise, so he has not lost anything, instead he gained more children.

Anyhow, the bible god reads as petty, jealous, violent, and all too human--no better than any of the other gods. Fortunately, none of them really exist except in our imaginations.
The Bible God appears to you to be all those things, by your judgment, but God is not a human, that he should be judged by humans or by human standards. and where do you get off to think that you a created human being can judge the creator?
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  #1055  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:20 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
But there's a good moral to the story: Make a promise (even if it's stupid -- what was he expecting to welcome him home, a lamb?) in exchange for God's help, and you'll get that help. And have to honor the promise.

I guess.
Should I answer your moronic post? nah it's not worth it.
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  #1056  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:23 AM
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Re: Another small bible error.

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Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
This will not destroy anyone's faith, and there are no doubt both simple and complex explanations somewhere online intended to preserve your belief that the bible is inerrant, inspired, infallible.

Mark 2:26 "How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the showbread...

The account of same story in 1 Sam 21:1-2 indicates it was Ahimelech. (Abiathar's father.)

Oops, "Mark," you're only human.


PS. "Mark" in quotations because it's an anonymous gospel (and the earliest one of the four) believed written around 70 c.e., with "Gospel according to Mark" simply added by editors.
Shall I answer this, nah, it has already been answered countless times, so I am not bothering.
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  #1057  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:26 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Another small bible error.

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
Always. There are even explanations for Jehoiachin being 8 and 18 years old when he began his reign. (2 Chronicles 36:9 and 2 Kings 24:8.)
Come on Timmy, tell the truth, you have already heard the explanation for this "error", if you truly have not then I will be happy to oblige and give you the whole story.
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  #1058  
Old 08-13-2013, 10:41 AM
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FlamingZword FlamingZword is offline
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Re: Another small bible error.

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Originally Posted by MarcBee View Post
However, there remains an even higher percentage that ARE legitimately mistaken.

Well I would like to meet one of those "legitimate mistakes" so far I have never met one.

so as to maintain my concept of inerrancy, inspiration, infallibility of the bible.

that is right your concept, but not everyone has your concept.

At some tipping point, I realized I was lying to myself at intervals.

All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire, no need to lie

A god, if nothing else, could use his/her/its own omnipotency and omnisciency to not only "inspire" writings, but also to preserve and deliver it. That didn't happen, at least so far.
You may not believe it happened, but that is your own personal belief.

I believe that God did "inspire" his writings, but those writings came thru human beings.
God has indeed preserved and delivered his writings, as a matter of fact we have over 5,800 ancient Greek manuscripts, far more than any other book in history. All those writings testify to the preservation of scripture.
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  #1059  
Old 08-14-2013, 10:53 AM
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Re: Timmy Talk

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
Should I answer your moronic post? nah it's not worth it.
Actually, I would like to see an answer. Why is it moronic? What's the true moral of the story?
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Why am I not surprised?
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  #1060  
Old 08-14-2013, 10:53 AM
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Re: Another small bible error.

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Originally Posted by FlamingZword View Post
Come on Timmy, tell the truth, you have already heard the explanation for this "error", if you truly have not then I will be happy to oblige and give you the whole story.
I have heard more than one explanation. One is that it is a copyist error. Is that the right one?
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