Tithing…Is it a command?

[Sean]

He does not want to know...that is the thing that will judge him some day

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

He does not want to know...that is the thing that will judge him some day

And what is frightening, and that I am agonizing to come to grips with, is that probably 80% of pastors at least would have the same smug, arrogant, and unaccountable attitude about this doctrine that Pliny and Flaming have. The tithe as taught by the likes of them IS our "indulgences" system that Luther exposed. I see no other option than to withdraw from the denominational ranks and begin crying out against it.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

And what is frightening, and that I am agonizing to come to grips with, is that probably 80% of pastors at least would have the same smug, arrogant, and unaccountable attitude about this doctrine that Pliny and Flaming have. The tithe as taught by the likes of them IS our "indulgences" system that Luther exposed. I see no other option than to withdraw from the denominational ranks and begin crying out against it.

Brother, it is highly likely they are not part of the Lords' TRUE church. They are so messed up doctrinally, they have little resemblance of the ORIGINAL church. The only way any one of us can know we are the true bride is by our doctrine and experience being exactly the same as the early church. They get a big "F" on the test of doctrinal similarity.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Someone asked when the "tithe" ended......Heb. 7...


To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Now let us look at the context of Heb. 7......keep an eye on the bold print.....
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

It clearly states that tithing is of the LAW OF MOSES!

6 but he whose descent(Melchisedek had descendants) is not counted to them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.


7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8 And here men that die receive tithes;(Jewish priests under the LAW) but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. 9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, for under it the people received the law, what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 16 who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect,


NINE times, the word tithe or tenth is used. The exegesis of the passage here is about the TITHE, and what has become of it. This passage is the telling us that the tithe, which is of the Law, has been DISANULLED.





The tithe was the mechanism that drove the Levitical priesthood, it could not operate without it.
Malachi shows us that.....(the "Law" is crying out for funding there).
You take away the tithe...you take away(defund) the Law of Moses.
The "theme" of Hebrews is to do exactly that.
Put an end to the temple worship.... This chapter is the "defunding" chapter.

Just to clarify.....

8 And here men that die receive tithes;(Jewish priests under the LAW) but there he (Melchizedek)receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

I emphasize that because tithe teachers like to claim that the reference in verse 8 that says, "there he receiveth them (tithes)" is referring to Jesus there in Heaven receiving our tithe of money.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Just to clarify.....




I emphasize that because tithe teachers like to claim that the reference in verse 8 that says, "there he receiveth them (tithes)" is referring to Jesus there in Heaven receiving our tithe of money.

If a pastor can prove he is a special kind of "priest", between me and my Lord, he can have my money. Remember, we are speaking of the Law of Moses(including tithing in verse 5) that has been disannulled in verse 18-19.

[shag]

Flame , u write that one page book on tithing yet, where you explain what Paul didn't, and with your biblical authority (extra biblical?) explain who all out of the ministries involved in Gods church is required to receive either tithe money or tithe from stolen goods from war, or ag crops from farmers, who all is required to pay it, and what all can be used as a tithe for those maybe short on cash but have plenty of chickens in the chicken house? And who all gets a yr off from tithing every seven yrs on jubilee year. And if it's wrong to tithe anything other than money. Matter of fact, on your one page book is it just telling everyone to send 10% of everything they own to you, since you have to pick and choose who gets a piece of everyone else's 10% cause Paul never did?

I'm sure Puny will buy your first copy.


A Well known UPC evangelist came to my church a couple of years ago telling everybody how they not only had to pay their tithes to the storehouse, but they had to pay all the tithes back every since they were born again because they owed backpay. Kept telling everybody to tap theirself on the chest and say 'my man of God.'
Whatcha think of that nonsense flame?


U guys explain the nt tithes to us Gentiles, who all in the body is expected to pay and who all in the body is expected to receives 10% of else's green according to scripture, cause Paul musta forgot to.

Write/type the book right here and now. Can items sometimes, always, or never be substituted for money? Who all gets? Who all pays? Prove to me according to the scriptures why you cannot require everyone on aff to send you 10% of their income...burden of proof-explain by the scriptures why you can't do that.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by Pliny

I'm afraid you will be waiting a loooong time for that answer!

I am fully aware that the anti-tithe crowd simply ignore the scriptures that speak well of the tithe.
they ignore the fact that no scripture ever denounces or speaks evil of the tithe, like they do.

They say that God does not need money, because they do not want to give any money to the church.

I pity any pastor who would have these kind of people in his church, he would probably would have to get a job and then still be expected to be available for these people 24 hours per day.
Of course this pastor will also have to pay the mortgage of the church and all the bills of his church with his salary from his regular job.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by shag

Flame , u write that one page book on tithing yet.

Not yet, I am busy with other projects, I have time limitations.

So far I have only written a couple of small articles on the tithe, but as soon as the time is available, I shall undertake to write a book of at least 250 pages on the tithe.

But right now I am working on more important projects.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I am fully aware that the anti-tithe crowd simply ignore the scriptures that speak well of the tithe.
they ignore the fact that no scripture ever denounces or speaks evil of the tithe, like they do.

They say that God does not need money, because they do not want to give any money to the church.

I pity any pastor who would have these kind of people in his church, he would probably would have to get a job and then still be expected to be available for these people 24 hours per day.
Of course this pastor will also have to pay the mortgage of the church and all the bills of his church with his salary from his regular job.

We can't speak evil of something that has never existed. That would be silly. I can't speak evil of the modern tithing theory(in contrast to the Levitical system now abolished), or the Trinity, of the pre-trib rapture, or the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus because these are just fairy tales. But we can speak against those who promote these teachings while slandering those who challenge them to prove them by scripture and sound hermeneutics. I pity any church members who are under the ministries of such phonies.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Not yet, I am busy with other projects, I have time limitations.

So far I have only written a couple of small articles on the tithe, but as soon as the time is available, I shall undertake to write a book of at least 250 pages on the tithe.

But right now I am working on more important projects.

And besides, everyone knows that the modern tithing theory is immune from scrutiny.