If it's wrong or unbiblical to 'practice' anything, then we should do away with choir, orchestra, and special singing practices!!! I mean, so what if the key is off and the timing isn't perfect, right? Isn't the worship more important than those things?
Where in the WORLD did you get that I said it was unbiblical to practice? I only asked if there was an example where David PRACTICED, or CHOREOGRAPHED--in other words--his dance.
We know that the singers practiced. We know that musicians practiced. It may, then, stand to reason where the spiritual dancers practiced, but it does not necessarily follow that they did.
Quote:
I challenge some of you to clap off time to songs in your church and see how many stares you get. Oh sure, they will be stares from those who obviously believe that synchronization isn't Biblical, but hey, you are worshipping, right?
Certainly, because clapping is timed to the music. If you have rhythm, you have no need to practice clapping. So this point is moot.
Quote:
I believe it was Paul that said let EVERYTHING be done decently and in order. This doesn't mean that worship is a field day of whathaveyou's, but rather, worship should be orderly. This gives way to those who wish to synchronize ways in which to worship and it's completely biblical to do so.
He was talking about the use of spiritual gifts that shut down worship where other people have to stop and listen to you. He was not referring to free worship.
According to your line of reasoning then, ALL WORSHIP would have to be choreographed or it would not be decently and in order. That is preposterous. If it were not choreographed, it would have to be "tamed." You cannot support this from Hebrew worship.
The fact is, some people's definition of "decently and in order" is whatever they want to make it.
Prove that Old Testament worship, when people shouted unto God with the voice of triumph, was choreographed, with everyone shouting the same thing, and in complete unison and you might have a case. It seems to me that if they were to shout in unison, they would have been told what to shout. They were not. They were told HOW to shout...with the voice of triumph...and they were told WHAT to do...shout.
I have FAR MORE proof that David's dancing was not choreographed, and it was not something that "genteel" folk would have called decent and in order...becuase his "proper wife," Saul's daughter was ashamed when she saw how "shameful" David danced before the people. When she challenged him on it--he said he'd do it "worse," which really meant "better," next time.
__________________ Oh! That I may be found faithful!
For me the big deal is not that it is in rhythym or to the beat but that it is choreographed. It is planned and practiced. It merely in response to the beat and not to His Spirit nor to the knowledge that He is worthy.
If you want dancing then go to the clubs. Respectfully
As a conservative apostolic, (I think I am anyway), there should be no issue with this. Having spent some time in Tampa, working in this church, there is a different culture here then in most UPCI churches. If someone can show me scripture for this being wrong, then do so. Otherwise it becomes opinion.
You might say signing actually means something, that's true, it is a language that has a meaning....but only to people that know that language, and the majority of the time, it's performed before an audience in which nobody does know sign language.
Yeah, I think there is a big difference between REAL signing: interpreting for the deaf using actual ASL, vs. the pseudo signing, drama-mime that is seen in churches. they aren't even the same thing.
Where in the WORLD did you get that I said it was unbiblical to practice? I only asked if there was an example where David PRACTICED, or CHOREOGRAPHED--in other words--his dance.
I didn't say that you said that.
Quote:
We know that the singers practiced. We know that musicians practiced. It may, then, stand to reason where the spiritual dancers practiced, but it does not necessarily follow that they did.
Who knows, right?
Quote:
Certainly, because clapping is timed to the music. If you have rhythm, you have no need to practice clapping. So this point is moot.
IF you have rhythm? And if you don't, it's ok to practice clapping? Not so moot a point, it seems.
Quote:
He was talking about the use of spiritual gifts that shut down worship where other people have to stop and listen to you. He was not referring to free worship.
Paul said EVERYTHING...that means what? He didn't say 'let the use of spiritual gifts......'
Quote:
According to your line of reasoning then, ALL WORSHIP would have to be choreographed or it would not be decently and in order. That is preposterous. If it were not choreographed, it would have to be "tamed." You cannot support this from Hebrew worship.
Believe it or not, there are lots of things that can be done decently and in order without being practiced first. Therefore, your thoughts about my line of reasoning are flawed a bit.
Quote:
The fact is, some people's definition of "decently and in order" is whatever they want to make it.
I agree with ya there!
Quote:
Prove that Old Testament worship, when people shouted unto God with the voice of triumph, was choreographed, with everyone shouting the same thing, and in complete unison and you might have a case. It seems to me that if they were to shout in unison, they would have been told what to shout. They were not. They were told HOW to shout...with the voice of triumph...and they were told WHAT to do...shout.
Prove they didn't.....we can do this with any point, but it's not the one I'm making. It's fact that unison was done several times, from shouting to playing trumpets. I don't believe it was utter chaos being heard.
Quote:
I have FAR MORE proof that David's dancing was not choreographed, and it was not something that "genteel" folk would have called decent and in order...becuase his "proper wife," Saul's daughter was ashamed when she saw how "shameful" David danced before the people. When she challenged him on it--he said he'd do it "worse," which really meant "better," next time.
I said nothing about David's dancing, nor do I believe it wasn't decent nor in order. His wife seems to be the only one who had a problem with it because she didn't like him 'undignifying' himself, as he was king. There were a lot of people who saw him dance that day, but no mention of mutterings from them are told about.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
The clapping and stomping was not an issue.The slapping of ones hands upon parts that were extremely prominent had not place in church.Plus I cannot see how God was glorified whatsoever by this drill team.Its seemed like self glorification.
The clapping and stomping was not an issue.The slapping of ones hands upon parts that were extremely prominent had not place in church.Plus I cannot see how God was glorified whatsoever by this drill team.Its seemed like self glorification.
Were you there? Is there a link?
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I think it's absolutely great, considering that young people don't care to attend church much anymore. If we can't do something with them and keep them in church, the world is ready with open arms to take our 'rejects'.
The youth in my church are part of the stick drama team. They look forward to it and do an awesome job. They also know that it's a part of worship and while it's ok to be entertaining, that's not why we do it, but unto the Lord. When we keep that in mind, worshipping God can be done all kinds of ways. He isn't picky in how we worship, only that we do it at all.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Linear Mode
