Young Man At Church About To Be Homeless...

[Esaias]

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Matthew 25:31-46)

Pretty sobering, if you ask me. Sounds like if we don't help our brethren out when they need help, we will definitely wind up in the lake of fire.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(James 2:14-26)

Yeah, that's pretty sobering, too. A Christian who won't help his brethren out when he is able to is lost and still in their sins.

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
(2 Thessalonians 3:10-15)

Another sobering thought, indeed. Disfellowshipping and shunning of the layabouts and idle sloths is Biblical and apostolic.

And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
(Acts 2:44-47)

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
(Acts 4:32-35)

Not communism, or communalism, or being a commune (for they did indeed break bread "from house to house" which shows they had their own houses in which to break bread). Rather, it was community, any brother or sister who had a lack was supplied by the others, so that everyone was helping everyone, and the result? Nobody was really suffering lack.

Now, nobody here can say what needs to be done in the thread's specified situation, because none of us actually know what's going on. We don't know the guy in question. But the Scripture ought to be enough to guide all of us in whatever decisions we might or will face.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(Matthew 25:31-46)

Pretty sobering, if you ask me. Sounds like if we don't help our brethren out when they need help, we will definitely wind up in the lake of fire.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
(James 2:14-26)

Yeah, that's pretty sobering, too. A Christian who won't help his brethren out when he is able to is lost and still in their sins.

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
(2 Thessalonians 3:10-15)

Another sobering thought, indeed. Disfellowshipping and shunning of the layabouts and idle sloths is Biblical and apostolic.

And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
(Acts 2:44-47)

And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
(Acts 4:32-35)

Not communism, or communalism, or being a commune (for they did indeed break bread "from house to house" which shows they had their own houses in which to break bread). Rather, it was community, any brother or sister who had a lack was supplied by the others, so that everyone was helping everyone, and the result? Nobody was really suffering lack.

Now, nobody here can say what needs to be done in the thread's specified situation, because none of us actually know what's going on. We don't know the guy in question. But the Scripture ought to be enough to guide all of us in whatever decisions we might or will face.

Amen Bro.

[BuckeyeBukaroo]

Sometimes we help our brothers and the strangers by telling them no.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeBukaroo

Sometimes we help our brothers and the strangers by telling them no.

Is that what the Bible says?

Look, the Bible commands us to shun those who are idle layabouts. And, that they are not to receive from the charity of the church (ie "if they won't work, they don't eat"). But I cannot find anywhere in Scripture where we are told to tell a brother or neighbour "no" except under certain conditions, which are described by the Scripture.

If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee. Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto. For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
(Deuteronomy 15:7-11)

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
(1 John 3:14-19)

[jediwill83]

Bible also says that those that give to to poor, lendeth to the Lord and He will repay....

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

You dont have a clue as to who I have took in or for how long. Or under what circumstances. I have ministered on the streets for 40 years. The doctrine of Jesus and the Apostles has its own checks and balances.

But my point is NOT to necessarily take in or even minister to every single need. But what is the need that is before you?

Now I dont know this young mans situation. I am just presenting Biblical principals. It looks to me if you have a man who is (seemingly) living for Christ, who has been faithful to the Fellowship, who is out of work, and loses his place it would be no great thing to shelter him temporarily.

How about starting with the Pastor? How many hours a week is the sacred temple being used? Is it to holy to allow a homeless believer in Jesus to stay there?

If not how about at his own house? He could be an EXAMPLE to people in the Church of helping the needy. How many households are in the Church? There is none to help?

For that matter how is it that a man is part of the Church and has NOT ONE FRIEND in the Church that could show him this kindness?

Now remember, I have said if this man is RIGHLY JUDGED to be a tare, or if he is sinning and will not repent, put him out.

If not dont claim the love of Jesus or his holiness when you turn him away from your door with only a prayer.

What you have posted here is fine and Biblically sound. I have no argument.

Yet, what we tend to do here on Apostolic Meat Grinder Forum is take a scenario and judge it as the pastor isn't doing anything (not saying you are saying that) or the church family are being unkind. BB, already gave us some extremely good clues. Now, keep in mind that I'm still dealing with the original topic, which is early 20s American male living in an apartment and is looking for a particular job that suits him. If he doesn't get that certain employment he won't go to work. his church family's spokesman is BB. BB while wanting to help the kid out, he calls the kid lazy.

BELLS AND WHISTLES should be going off.

Second spokesman for the Church family is none other than BB's wife. She doesn't think it is a cool idea to have this Rhodes scholar camped out in her garage. Another indicator to who this kid is, and what we are talking about.

Clues?

Yes, many, if BB's wife said no go Joe, and the pastor said amen, and amen. What more proof do we need? Help people? Why certainly, help those who sincerely need help. Our Welfare system is created from a Christain ethic, but it is broken.

First Church of Whatever, which is located in the City of Wherever. Has phones calls everyday with people who are calling to have their light bills payed, need diapers, need groceries, pay the rent, etc.

I have paid cell phone bills, I have bought more diapers than I ever put on my own children, groceries, baby formula, clothes, gasoline tankfuls, repaired flats, bought tires, repaired vehicles, did construction to homes, to driving someone hundreds of miles home, and paid for Greyhound bus rides home.

Yet, we have to remember that Jesus didn't help everyone, Jesus didn't heal everyone, Jesus wasn't preaching to everyone, but allow me to qualify this statement. Jesus only preaches to His sheep, because the others cannot hear Him. When preachers preach or teach they're only preaching and teaching to the remnant. The joker sleeping on the pew needs to get some good rest, because even if he was awake he can't hear what is being said.

Running to and fro is sometimes us when we waste God's precious time with people who are only using us and manipulating us to see what they can get.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Is that what the Bible says?

Look, the Bible commands us to shun those who are idle layabouts. And, that they are not to receive from the charity of the church (ie "if they won't work, they don't eat"). But I cannot find anywhere in Scripture where we are told to tell a brother or neighbour "no" except under certain conditions, which are described by the Scripture.

If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. Beware that there be not a thought in thy wicked heart, saying, The seventh year, the year of release, is at hand; and thine eye be evil against thy poor brother, and thou givest him nought; and he cry unto the LORD against thee, and it be sin unto thee. Thou shalt surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto. For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
(Deuteronomy 15:7-11)

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
(1 John 3:14-19)

Amen 100% correct.

The ministers know what is going on in a church family, the brothers and sisters see what is going on. Yet, still trust the ministry enough to allow the ministry to take care of the situation. To judge between the holy and the profane.

[LOVE JESUS]

Does he have a car? If he hits rock bottom, he could sleep in car. Has anyone done a background check on him? That might be a good idea. I agree with the man's wife that did not want him to stay at her house. Sometimes women have a great sense of character than men. Does someone have a garage that he could sleep in and not bother the family. He could go to a McDonalds to use the bathroom and wash up. There is a reason that the pastor can't help him. Maybe we just don't know the whole story.
Is there a men's shelter in the area that he could stay. The Salvation Army could possibly help. I know they make you get up at 6 am and will save your money so you can get on your own and you are allowed to attend any church - at least that was the way it was when we lived near one in
Florida.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What you have posted here is fine and Biblically sound. I have no argument.

Yet, what we tend to do here on Apostolic Meat Grinder Forum is take a scenario and judge it as the pastor isn't doing anything (not saying you are saying that) or the church family are being unkind. BB, already gave us some extremely good clues. Now, keep in mind that I'm still dealing with the original topic, which is early 20s American male living in an apartment and is looking for a particular job that suits him. If he doesn't get that certain employment he won't go to work. his church family's spokesman is BB. BB while wanting to help the kid out, he calls the kid lazy.

BELLS AND WHISTLES should be going off.

Second spokesman for the Church family is none other than BB's wife. She doesn't think it is a cool idea to have this Rhodes scholar camped out in her garage. Another indicator to who this kid is, and what we are talking about.

Clues?

Yes, many, if BB's wife said no go Joe, and the pastor said amen, and amen. What more proof do we need? Help people? Why certainly, help those who sincerely need help. Our Welfare system is created from a Christain ethic, but it is broken.

First Church of Whatever, which is located in the City of Wherever. Has phones calls everyday with people who are calling to have their light bills payed, need diapers, need groceries, pay the rent, etc.

I have paid cell phone bills, I have bought more diapers than I ever put on my own children, groceries, baby formula, clothes, gasoline tankfuls, repaired flats, bought tires, repaired vehicles, did construction to homes, to driving someone hundreds of miles home, and paid for Greyhound bus rides home.

Yet, we have to remember that Jesus didn't help everyone, Jesus didn't heal everyone, Jesus wasn't preaching to everyone, but allow me to qualify this statement. Jesus only preaches to His sheep, because the others cannot hear Him. When preachers preach or teach they're only preaching and teaching to the remnant. The joker sleeping on the pew needs to get some good rest, because even if he was awake he can't hear what is being said.

Running to and fro is sometimes us when we waste God's precious time with people who are only using us and manipulating us to see what they can get.

Amen. And this is why I said none of us here can tell BB what he should or should not do. Although I will say this, if Sister BB said the guy ain't sleeping on the couch, then it would probably be the height of foolishness to let the guy sleep on the couch. Just saying. Plus, taking someone into your home is a seriously risky proposition. Lots of bad juju can result.

I will say this, though. Personal experience. Sometimes, God shuts doors on us and gives us a free ride on the aptly named Constrictor roller coaster, in order to move things around for not only our future benefit but others' as well.

I was working a job once, and suddenly the boss was not paying anything except excuses. One thing led to another and the result? Eviction with nowhere to go. Tried looking for other work but for some mysterious reason couldn't land as much as a grocery clerk job. Long story short, wife got in touch with a friend of ours who had moved to Oklahoma, said "Well, just get up here and you can crash with us." So we moved up there. Motor blew up in the car as we pulled in front of the house. That friend was backslidden, but our presence there and our witness (Christian peer pressure?) got her back in church and living for God. (Not sure where she is now, this was years ago.) Also, I wound up getting a job that allowed a transfer back to Texas (obviously divine Providence) and which allowed us to buy a house, pay it off, buy our cars for cash with no payments, etc etc etc. Got to meet elder Epley as a result of all this, some 6-8 years later. lol

So, I guess what I'm saying, is sometimes things aren't what the eyeballs think they see. Inability to find a job isn't ALWAYS for a lack of trying. Not saying that's what is going on here. Or that it is not what's going on. I don't know. I'm not in the thick of it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Amen. And this is why I said none of us here can tell BB what he should or should not do. Although I will say this, if Sister BB said the guy ain't sleeping on the couch, then it would probably be the height of foolishness to let the guy sleep on the couch. Just saying. Plus, taking someone into your home is a seriously risky proposition. Lots of bad juju can result.

I will say this, though. Personal experience. Sometimes, God shuts doors on us and gives us a free ride on the aptly named Constrictor roller coaster, in order to move things around for not only our future benefit but others' as well.

I was working a job once, and suddenly the boss was not paying anything except excuses. One thing led to another and the result? Eviction with nowhere to go. Tried looking for other work but for some mysterious reason couldn't land as much as a grocery clerk job. Long story short, wife got in touch with a friend of ours who had moved to Oklahoma, said "Well, just get up here and you can crash with us." So we moved up there. Motor blew up in the car as we pulled in front of the house. That friend was backslidden, but our presence there and our witness (Christian peer pressure?) got her back in church and living for God. (Not sure where she is now, this was years ago.) Also, I wound up getting a job that allowed a transfer back to Texas (obviously divine Providence) and which allowed us to buy a house, pay it off, buy our cars for cash with no payments, etc etc etc. Got to meet elder Epley as a result of all this, some 6-8 years later. lol

So, I guess what I'm saying, is sometimes things aren't what the eyeballs think they see. Inability to find a job isn't ALWAYS for a lack of trying. Not saying that's what is going on here. Or that it is not what's going on. I don't know. I'm not in the thick of it.