Apostolic annointing

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

An awesome experience, PO! I'll share mine...

I grew up in a OP church where it was regularly preached that you needed to have a revelation of the oneness, and that you couldn't be saved without that revelation. As a child, that bothered me, because I wanted to know and understand it completely, but it was taught that you had to have some kind of revelatory experience, or you would never understand it.

Around the age of 13 or so, because of this teaching that was so hard-hitting and scary, I decided to go on a fast and see if I could have that experience, whatever it was. I remember I was in my room praying, and I was impressed to go to

Colossians 2:9-10 "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily,
and ye are complete in Him,
which is the head of all principality and power."

This hit my heart like a thunderbolt! In that moment, I understood, with my heart and soul and every inch of my being, that all of who God was, was in Jesus, and that the quality of all of who Jesus was, lived in me through the indwelling of His spirit. The magnitude of that understanding caused me to both rejoice and tremble. It was a powerful moment in my life, and I will never forget it.

I would never tell someone that they couldn't be saved without this "revelation", but I would encourage everyone to ask the Lord about the godhead, the deity of Christ, and what it means to them.

Very awesome!!!! I agree. I would never tell someone that they couldn't be saved without that revelation. It always comes across like a threat and the person lives in fear (not of God) and feels inadequate. There is enough of that going on in the secular world. We shouldn't project that in church as well.

I don't know why I thought of this, but I remember Bro. Urshan speaking to a group (probably camp meeting) about women needing to wear pantyhose, and that Hell is a lot hotter than what we would experience wearing them here on Earth. That's the dumb Pentecost people get tired of, IMO - which has nothing to do with the Godhead or lovely and powerful Gospel message. I hate threats.

[Aquila]

The Holy Spirit is active in many churches. However, their "traditions" and "doctrines of men" hinder the fullness of God being manifest in the Spirit. It is almost like they have God on a leash. Apostolics simply don't care about being called radical, extreme, heretics, cults, etc. on account of the Jesus name doctrine. It is this being sold out 100% that gives God total liberty to move and manifest in greater power and demonstration among us.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Holy Spirit is active in many churches. However, their "traditions" and "doctrines of men" hinder the fullness of God being manifest in the Spirit. It is almost like they have God on a leash. Apostolics simply don't care about being called radical, extreme, heretics, cults, etc. on account of the Jesus name doctrine. It is this being sold out 100% that gives God total liberty to move and manifest in greater power and demonstration among us.

Whether people have traditions or not, i.e., Catholic Church, God will present Himself to anyone that has faith.

He helped me many times before I even knew anything about Pentecost.

You simply cannot broadbrush ALL Apostolics not caring. That simply isn't true. There are many that hold dearly to the Oneness view of the Godhead and the Gospel message who just ignore the rest because they want God more.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It is this being sold out 100% that gives God total liberty to move and manifest in greater power and demonstration among us.

yes.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't know why I thought of this, but I remember Bro. Urshan speaking to a group (probably camp meeting) about women needing to wear pantyhose, and that Hell is a lot hotter than what we would experience wearing them here on Earth. That's the dumb Pentecost people get tired of, IMO - which has nothing to do with the Godhead or lovely and powerful Gospel message. I hate threats.

my personal favorite was *if your pastor says to stand on your head and gargle peanut butter, you better do it*

don't get me started lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Whether people have traditions or not, i.e., Catholic Church, God will present Himself to anyone that has faith.

Amen! I've seen the Holy Spirit move among Baptists, Episcopals, Methodists, Quakers, etc. Many have been filled with the Spirit in churches that are open to it.

However, sometimes their traditions can hinder the fullness of the presence, and as a result, it doesn't feel like the fullness of the presence. Churches do this for many reasons. It could be to control the move of God, to keep it from getting "crazy", or to keep it low key so as to not bring embarrassment, or because gifts flying around the congregation might cause the priest, pastor, preacher, or whatever to look less spiritual. Some reasons are because it simply isn't "traditional" among their fellowship.

I do believe that God is in them and that God loves them. I do believe that they have experienced spiritual regeneration and that they are born of spirit.

But in my experience, Apostolics are more likely to allow the Spirit free reign to move as He desires. And this is why most feel God far more strongly in our churches.

He helped me many times before I even knew anything about Pentecost.

I look at it like a journey. And God is with whoever He has called to Himself from start to finish.

You simply cannot broadbrush ALL Apostolics not caring. That simply isn't true. There are many that hold dearly to the Oneness view of the Godhead and the Gospel message who just ignore the rest because they want God more.

Apostolics seem to always be 100% sold out to God, even when they hold more moderate standards. It seems to me like Apostolics simply don't care about letting it go and being called "crazy" every once in a while. lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

my personal favorite was *if your pastor says to stand on your head and gargle peanut butter, you better do it*

don't get me started lol

And that is how the Catholic Church got started. Infallible authority.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Is it any wonder that Jason B. feels the way he does? I do not say it is rampant, or pandemic to the movement as a whole, but there are pockets of spiritual hubris, a "my way or the highway, don't the let the door hit you", superiority complex in and among some Oneness adherents (and surely among other groups as well, much to the Lord's chagrin, I imagine).

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

This is interesting as it came to mind a young woman I have been working with. I was thinking, feeling sorry for her, that she had been treated rather badly growing up. The Lord brought to my mind Isaiah 53. I then understood that we can hide behind our pain and hold on to excuses, but we don't have any excuses for moving on in life. We have never suffered like Jesus Christ has.

IOW, and I do like Jason B. But I also have lots of stories I could share where people would wonder why I don't go and find some other place to live for God. I believe that following His will for my life is more important than following my feelings. A political friend states, "Facts don't care about your feelings." To a degree, that is true when following after God.

For what its worth, my problems with oneness pentecostalism are largely doctrinal, it does spill over into church practice and the oneness sub culture, but all of it has a doctinal basis. Everyone thinks I'm anti UPC, anti oneness pentecostal, and thats far from the truth. I affirm a oneness position on the Godhead, a continuist view of the gifts of the Spirit, an affirmation of lively worship, and of holiness living. I do not agree with 3 step soteriology, the initial evidence doctrine, tithing doctrine, and while I affirm holiness and modesty, and have no disagreement with standards as principles by which we should live as the Spirit leads us, I reject any view or teaching of standards which ties the keeping of them in any way to salvation, whether being saved or staying saved. Any such view is legalistic and perverts the gospel of Christ.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jason B

I reject any view or teaching of standards which ties the keeping of them in any way to salvation, whether being saved or staying saved. Any such view is legalistic and perverts the gospel of Christ.

So, NO STANDARDS OF ANY KIND are connected to being saved or staying saved? And ANY standard tied to salvation "in ANY way" is a perversion of the gospel?

Can one pervert the gospel and be saved?

Oh wait, that would be tying a standard to salvation...

So, in reality, ANYTHING GOES, it seems, and NOTHING would keep a person from being or staying saved.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, NO STANDARDS OF ANY KIND are connected to being saved or staying saved? And ANY standard tied to salvation "in ANY way" is a perversion of the gospel?

Yes.

If salvation is based on our performance or goodness, it is not of grace.

If we keep ourselves saved by some manner of standards keeping, then our salvation is based on our own righteousness, rather than Christ's. In which case, we are doomed, no matter how "holy" we are.

It's simple, we are saved by God's grace through faith in His son Jesus Christ. Our sin is imputed to Christ, His righteousness to us. If God has given us Christ's righteousness, then what can we add to that? Even if someone never lays an eyeball on TV, never trims their hair, never wears a pair of jeans, shorts, or make up. Never even so much as gets a melt on play tattoo, or "smokes" a candy cigarette, and keeps all the standards 100%, if they are counting on their own righteousness to save them, they are despising the death of Christ.

Originally Posted by Esaias

So, in reality, ANYTHING GOES, it seems, and NOTHING would keep a person from being or staying saved.

No.

In reality the person who persists in sin evidences that they do not know Him.

"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."
I John 3:6