25 Year Anniversary

[Evang.Benincasa]

Why does this posting stuff always have to become work?

I only type with two fingers.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why does this posting stuff always have to become work?

I only type with two fingers.

Wow, really? Good job, Johnny!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

At the outset of the church, you have God gathering the key players together. The devout Jews were from "every nation under the sun". So, in my estimation, I don't think we have people from "every nation under the sun" in our churches when someone receives the Holy Ghost.

If as you say they must be understood as on the Day of Pentecost, then only English and Spanish could be the tongues spoken in my church which wouldn't surprise anyone.

I Cor 14:16, suggests that tongues won't always be understood. In verse 17, Paul states that the person has done well by giving thanks, and in verse 18 he says that he speaks in tongues more than all of them.

The lesson isn't about not speaking in tongues in a public setting, but to excel in the spiritual gifts, as in a crowd of people we want to minister to them in some way by the Spirit of God.





Of course Charity is the more excellent way. You can't operate the gifts under God's direction properly if love is not the motive. You can't present the life of a true disciple if love is not the motive - love covers a multitude of sin. Unless we are in God's presence to fill us again with the wonder of His love, it is hard to get up and be a proper minister of the Gospel bearing the fruit of the spirit. None of this changes because a person, group of people or a whole church fails at representing the Gospel properly. None of that matters to me. It is about me and God. I won't be standing at the White Throne judgment with anyone but me and God Almighty.

I remember a time that I had given a woman a Bible study. She repented, was baptized and was seeking to be filled with the Holy Ghost - several times at church. I was standing to the side and God spoke this to me, "I can't fill an old vessel with new wine." I talked to her about searching her heart regarding anything she might be holding onto that wasn't important to anyone but herself. After a time she was filled, and so I believe she went through a personal process of really being serious about wanting God in her life. It is my understanding, from this experience, that perhaps some people don't understand what true repentance really entails, no matter how hard it appears they are crying at the altar. There are some things that people are still hanging onto in their hearts, yet, not admitting that openly to anyone in the room.

I had repented and was baptized and prayed for the Holy Ghost for about 3 months. One night I stayed home from church because I was really tired of this little home mission work with their petty issues. I was 25 years old and who cares about all that junk, right? Anyway, I was at home talking to the Lord and he showed me how I was really straddling the fence. I wanted to live for God, but I also wanted a little bit of the world I came from. After I made that right and made my commitment firm, I received the Holy Ghost.

I also recall an evangelist sharing his experience. He prayed so much at the altar that people were sick of praying for him. LOL! One service he was at his pew, on the floor praying by himself and God showed him something he had in his home that he needed to get rid of in order to be filled with the Holy Ghost. He didn't share what that was. Perhaps we would have thought it was silly, but it was something that stood between him giving his whole heart to God. Anyway, after he got rid of whatever the thing was, he was filled.

Maybe some of us are just hard headed. I don't know. LOL! But, all three of those accounts have the same shared story. Repentance is a very serious issue. It shouldn't be taken lightly. We say Repent and be.... as though Repentance is all that easy. I don't think it is easy at all. At least for some. It's more than just a word. It really means something that holds your eternity in it's hands.

Anyway, after this lengthy response...I have to get this in while I have the time (lol)...there are three things I see that are important to me:

1) I want the scripture to show me what the Holy Ghost is, besides the Spirit of God. I get that answer in Acts 10:45-46 - The disciples knew the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out on the Gentiles, "because" they heard them speak in tongues.

2) The Bible says that you can find salvation and be saved by:

Repentance - Mark 1:4 - John came preaching repentance for the remission of sins. Romans 10:10 says that "with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Baptism - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved..." Mark 16:16

Side note: Mark 16:16 tells me that repentance ALONE does not save you.

Holy Ghost infilling: Now that I know from the Disciples account of recognizing when someone is filled with the Spirit - for they heard them speak in tongues - Romans 8:9 tells me that I must have that same Spirit to be adopted into the Kingdom of God or I am "none of His" - the earnest or down payment of my inheritance. Ephesians 1:13-14

That sums up my view. I don't take into account someone who hasn't been filled with her spirit for years or ever - I look at the Word of God. Some people's experiences line up with the Word and some people's don't. If they don't line up, I don't pay attention to it or try to figure it out. I don't know a person's heart, so how could I know the answer.

God bless!

God bless you too... I am so thankful to be having this great discussion

I appreciate your input. I don't argue with you that the tongues experience is supernatural, and life changing, and that the Lord may ask certain things of you before receiving... although there again, there is no record of ANYONE in the book of Acts "tarrying" or pleading for the HG.

One thing of interest to me is this... the laying on of hands... this seemed to be the common denominator in every one of the accounts of people receiving the HG. Paul talked about imparting gifts to Timothy by the laying on of hands. And laying on of hands is mentioned in Hebrews 6:1-2 as one of the main tenants of the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

There is no record of anyone tarrying and pleading for the HG, but if they wanted to receive, the apostles laid hands on them, and they received. Again, the concept of pleading for the HG is not anywhere in the book of Acts.

So there are these little inconsistencies about the tongues, and gifts of tongues that are just there.

1. Most people receive the HG and do not speak in a language others can understand, as what happened on the DOP.
2. There was no tarrying or waiting, praying, pleading.
3. The laying on of hands was an important part of people receiving the gift of the HG.

And PO... just want you to know, I have experienced many of the same things as you -praying with people through the years, and have seen many, many people filled with the HG as we prayed, and the mystery of why some received, and some didn't, I could never understand.

I will never, ever say that tongues are not real and supernatural because they are. They are the most powerful and wonderful thing to happen to a believer.

But because of the inconsistencies I see in scripture, I cannot say tongues are salvational... that is the line I stand behind.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why does this posting stuff always have to become work?

I only type with two fingers.

i don't get it--is there some other way to post?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

God bless you too... I am so thankful to be having this great discussion

I appreciate your input. I don't argue with you that the tongues experience is supernatural, and life changing, and that the Lord may ask certain things of you before receiving... although there again, there is no record of ANYONE in the book of Acts "tarrying" or pleading for the HG.

One thing of interest to me is this... the laying on of hands... this seemed to be the common denominator in every one of the accounts of people receiving the HG. Paul talked about imparting gifts to Timothy by the laying on of hands. And laying on of hands is mentioned in Hebrews 6:1-2 as one of the main tenants of the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

There is no record of anyone tarrying and pleading for the HG, but if they wanted to receive, the apostles laid hands on them, and they received. Again, the concept of pleading for the HG is not anywhere in the book of Acts.

So there are these little inconsistencies about the tongues, and gifts of tongues that are just there.

1. Most people receive the HG and do not speak in a language others can understand, as what happened on the DOP.
2. There was no tarrying or waiting, praying, pleading.
3. The laying on of hands was an important part of people receiving the gift of the HG.

And PO... just want you to know, I have experienced many of the same things as you -praying with people through the years, and have seen many, many people filled with the HG as we prayed, and the mystery of why some received, and some didn't, I could never understand.

I will never, ever say that tongues are not real and supernatural because they are. They are the most powerful and wonderful thing to happen to a believer.

But because of the inconsistencies I see in scripture, I cannot say tongues are salvational... that is the line I stand behind.

The only thing I can see on the tarrying is a heart issue that hasn't been dealt with and as Brother Billy Cole would instruct - "You just have to believe." That isn't easy for some people either. So, no I am not advocating something that is not in the Bible, i.e. tarrying. I just see it happening and I think it involves "true" repentance that goes deeper than just the word repentance itself, and I believe it involves our faith and seeking tongues more than the giver of tongues. All of these are a hindrance.

I was baptized, the first time, by former Astronaut Charles Duke in the river in New Braunfels, Texas. Before I went into the water he said, "Special people receive the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues. Not everyone receives it." So, because I didn't think I was "special", my faith wasn't there. Besides, he baptized me in the titles. lol! I think it is a rather terrible thing to tell someone that only "special" people receive the Holy Ghost. My sister being a Baptist said the same thing to me. I said, "Well, aren't you sad that you aren't special?" Just getting her to think about what she said. It's a silly thing to tell someone. It's for everyone. And having joy isn't a sign either, which I've heard from my Baptist family members. Hey, you can feel a whole lot of joy being drunk, but you sure aren't saved. LOL!

I can say from experience that unless the Lord moves on me, I don't lay hands on people. The Apostles apparently felt that unction of the Spirit to do that at the appointed time. When faith meets the Spirit - miraculous things happen. We don't pay much attention to "following after the spirit". You don't have to lay hands on people for them to be filled.

I can't really follow you on the Day of Pentecost and being insistent that someone today in our local churches should be able to understand what you are saying. Corinthians doesn't even express that thinking, as Paul states that people coming in won't understand them unless they interpret. He doesn't want to them stop speaking in tongues, he just wants them to excel in the gifts more than in personal praise to God all the time.

There were people present from "all the nations under heaven" who were familiar with the languages spoken on the Day of Pentecost. That is the only way they understood what was said. We certainly don't have that in my church, do you? And don't you think God set that up at the appointed time in order to usher in the NT church with an understanding that this was from God? After all, He came on the scene after events were in place, Greek being the universal language. God is all about precise timing in my estimation.

I can't get hung up on the "understanding" part. It doesn't follow Corinthians and it doesn't make sense that in my church, the only language that could EVER be spoken is English and Spanish. I've gone through severe trials where I came through and there was a distinct difference in the tongues that I spoke. So, I don't speak the same language all the time. I can understand, "Gloria a Dios", etc. in Spanish.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i don't get it--is there some other way to post?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why does this posting stuff always have to become work?

I only type with two fingers.

Work? Is that why you are always posting little pictures, lol!

I can help you out... there are many typing programs available on the net... pick one, and get busy

http://www.typing.com
https://www.typingclub.com/

... and many more

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Work? Is that why you are always posting little pictures, lol!

I can help you out... there are many typing programs available on the net... pick one, and get busy

http://www.typing.com
https://www.typingclub.com/

... and many more

I don't think you can teach and old dog new tricks, right?

[KeptByTheWord]

PO... There are, for me anyway, enough inconsistencies in the accounts in scripture, and reconciling them with the teaching in 1 Cor., along with not one clear scripture that clearly states, unless you speak in tongues you are not saved... that we can wrangle about this a long time, and really, never come to an agreement.

You have to be content in what you know and believe, and I too. I think we are more alike than different in what we believe, except for the one point on salvational, and I'm okay with that. I don't want to force that on anyone to believe.

For me... without a concrete scripture to stand on safely and say.... "unless you speak in tongues, you are not saved", then I just can't say that. If it was there, I would be standing on it today, and I would not be having this discussion. I want to take the Bible at its word, what it has to say, and I don't want to add or subtract from the plainness we find.

I appreciate you my sister, and I'm glad we had this conversation

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I don't think you can teach and old dog new tricks, right?

Ya, he never shared his age.