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12-14-2013, 02:30 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
Touchy Subject? Mary the Mother of God is a reasonable conclusion with a oneness paradigm.
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That phrase was invented by Trinitarians. Either way it is a faulty conclusion.
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12-14-2013, 02:38 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
It wasn't invented. "Mother of God" I believe was already in use by the Pagans for Diana or Artemus?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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12-14-2013, 02:41 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
D-R | Jn 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.
NKJV | Jn 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
NLT | Jn 8:58 Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!”
WUESTNT | Jn 8:54–59 Answered Jesus, Most assuredly I am saying to you, Before Abraham came into existence I AM. Then they took up stones to throw at Him. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.
Just depends on the Translators not what John wrote
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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12-14-2013, 02:41 PM
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Isaiah 56:4-5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 11,307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
That phrase was invented by Trinitarians. Either way it is a faulty conclusion.
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*points and laughs*
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12-14-2013, 02:53 PM
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God's Son
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
James 2:19
19 Do you still think it's enough just to believe that there is one God? Well, even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror!
As I said before, James says it's no big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
If that is true, why don't you stop?
BTW That wasn't what James said but that was to date the most interesting spin on scriptures I've heard in a while.
James was talking about faith and how we should have it and what it means then drew a comparison to the devils who believe there is One God and tremble. Nothing there about "nitpicking" about who and what God is...
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__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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12-14-2013, 03:06 PM
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God's Son
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
Prax, The scripture we are discussing is John 8:24.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. KJV
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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12-14-2013, 03:07 PM
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God's Son
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
So far no defense why Mary can't be the mother of God.
__________________
A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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12-14-2013, 03:13 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
James 2:19
19 Do you still think it's enough just to believe that there is one God? Well, even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror!
As I said before, James says it's no big deal.
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What version was that? BTW he still does not say "nitpicking about the God head ranks so low in God's priority the devils don't do anything but shake"
ESV Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder!
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, " You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith without works and I will show faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that — and tremble with fear.
Jas 2:20 But would you like evidence, you empty fellow, that faith without works is useless?
It's GOOD to believe in One God. The topic here is Works and Faith. Clearly Demons lack faith with works
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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12-14-2013, 03:17 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
However, I think it IS safe to say that when Jesus said "before Abraham was, I AM" , that he was referring to his deity.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
If that was the case, the I am would have been capitalized. In the Old Testament the statement referring to deity was capitalized as I AM. The passage in John doesn't capitalize the am thus not referring to a proper name. The grammar rules show different applications thus it is not reasonable to assume Jesus was claiming to be God in that passage.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
Prax, The scripture we are discussing is John 8:24.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. KJV |
You might have missed this TV but Originalist was referring to Jn 8:58
Either way it's the translators that make it capitalized. The Greek has no capitalizations to distinguish words. Some MS were ALL capital letters or all lower case.
BTW Some translations DO translate I AM in that verse too
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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12-14-2013, 03:20 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Re: All trinatarians are lost!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a
So far no defense why Mary can't be the mother of God.
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Maybe no defense because nobody cares (See your own verse on nitpicking) or they don't necessarily disagree.
I can offer both an affirmative and a denial. The fact is to some arguing Mary was the Mother of God implies God was created in her womb from her genetics and that means he is not really God and or she is not really human.
And in fact leaving the phrase "Mother of God" undefined as you have makes that a valid argument.
However she really wasn't called Mother of God at first but "God bearer". She carried God incarnate in her womb, in that sense she can be called Mother of God.
But again it really is a pagan term adopted by Rome for a specific theological nuance and it really is pointless to discuss without defining it
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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