Friends church droppped "standards"

[CC1]

You are all just a bunch of backsliders who have forgotten that "power" is a bunch of people whipped into a frenzy screaming and hollaring and jumping all over the place!

You know good and well that God can't and doesn't operate in any other enviroment than that.

You can judge the annointing of your preacher by how loud he is and how he uses a microphone to achieve that "holy breath" thing while he is preaching.

If your preacher is just speaking in a normal tone truth from the Bible then he is not an Old Testament prophet...er....I mean a real New Testament preacher!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I have witnessed more miracles, signs and wonders in the past year than I did in 35 plus years in legalism combined.

Could list a few of the signs and wonders?

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Maybe people are brainwashed into believing that God's power is fueled upon their standards. They subconsciously think that the miracles stop because they dropped the standards.

The foundation of God's miracles is Jesus Christ, not standards. Belief that He died for our sins and His resurrection is the fuel, not standards.

Your post has merit but I find the use of the term "brainwashed" offensive.

Personally I feel it has more to do simply with discipline. I've been to many churches with strict or even semi-strict standards. They tend to have more prayer meetings, more consecration, more people fasting, more people seeking Gods face. THAT is what causes miracles: prayer, faith, and fasting.

Am I personally very big on standards? I believe that's left up to the pastor and I believe in moderation. However I grew up watching saints who were strict in holiness and can say that I saw first hand these saints were only disciplined in appearance but they were discipline in fasting, praying, and devotion to God.

Ill give an example of what I'm talking about. I visited a PAW church in Virginia while I was on TDY for my job. The church had completely lost all discipline. I went to pray in the morning and out of a church with about 170 people there were 4 at prayer. All of them elderly women. There were no standards at the church, even the pastors granddaughter came in wearing jeans and had lip piercings, she sat in the back of the church with the other youth who dressed the same way and were all texting and talking throughout the service. Am I saying that low standards always mean no power?No. But no discipline does, and from my experience a lot of churches that let down standards also change their disciplines.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Your post has merit but I find the use of the term "brainwashed" offensive.

Personally I feel it has more to do simply with discipline. I've been to many churches with strict or even semi-strict standards. They tend to have more prayer meetings, more consecration, more people fasting, more people seeking Gods face. THAT is what causes miracles: prayer, faith, and fasting.

Am I personally very big on standards? I believe that's left up to the pastor and I believe in moderation. However I grew up watching saints who were strict in holiness and can say that I saw first hand these saints were only disciplined in appearance but they were discipline in fasting, praying, and devotion to God.

Ill give an example of what I'm talking about. I visited a PAW church in Virginia while I was on TDY for my job. The church had completely lost all discipline. I went to pray in the morning and out of a church with about 170 people there were 4 at prayer. All of them elderly women. There were no standards at the church, even the pastors granddaughter came in wearing jeans and had lip piercings, she sat in the back of the church with the other youth who dressed the same way and were all texting and talking throughout the service. Am I saying that low standards always mean no power?No. But no discipline does, and from my experience a lot of churches that let down standards also change their disciplines.

Rebellious teenagers who are not interested in church or God exist in ultra con, con, moderate, and lib churches. How they dress may or may not reflect the condition of their heart. There are plenty of churches with women in jeans who love God, pray, study God's word, and are sold out to living for Christ. Just as there are some churches with women in skirts below their knees, no makeup and no jewelry who are as far from God as one can be. A strict dress code does not mean one is right with God and living a victorious Christian life.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by CC1

Rebellious teenagers who are not interested in church or God exist in ultra con, con, moderate, and lib churches. How they dress may or may not reflect the condition of their heart. There are plenty of churches with women in jeans who love God, pray, study God's word, and are sold out to living for Christ. Just as there are some churches with women in skirts below their knees, no makeup and no jewelry who are as far from God as one can be. A strict dress code does not mean one is right with God and living a victorious Christian life.

Been Thinkin

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Your post has merit but I find the use of the term "brainwashed" offensive.

Well...I'm sorry you find that offensive. I did not have it in mind to be offensive.

However, I just say what I feel and that is how I feel.

If people have to have these standards to be 'disciplined' with their prayer life and fasting then so be it for them.

But for any of them to get their eyes on someone else and dismiss their walk with God simply because they do not share the same 'discipline' and standards is not cool. And it happens all the time.

I personally feel that belief and faith Christ is the foundation for miracles and if people leave Christ because they left standards, one has to wonder what kind of walk they had to begin with?

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Am I personally very big on standards? I believe that's left up to the pastor and I believe in moderation. However I grew up watching saints who were strict in holiness and can say that I saw first hand these saints were only disciplined in appearance but they were discipline in fasting, praying, and devotion to God.

I truly am glad that you have had this experience with standards and fasting and prayer.

I have seen people who are disciplined in their dress and hair standards and were the meanest backstabbing bunch of folk I've ever had the displeasure to be around. Some of them would step on you to higher ground to be noticed. I've seen some of them make fun of their sisters in the Lord. Even the men would say unkind things about other men.

It doesn't say much when people outside of church have more compassion for sickness or financial burdens than those you attend church with.

And...sorry, but there is no biblical precedence that pastors should have that power to make policy for all in a church setting. Elders should be elected by the people, (not hand picked by the pastor) as outlined in Acts 6 and they should make policy.

2Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 ¶And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them. Acts 6:2-6

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Ill give an example of what I'm talking about. I visited a PAW church in Virginia while I was on TDY for my job. The church had completely lost all discipline. I went to pray in the morning and out of a church with about 170 people there were 4 at prayer. All of them elderly women. There were no standards at the church, even the pastors granddaughter came in wearing jeans and had lip piercings, she sat in the back of the church with the other youth who dressed the same way and were all texting and talking throughout the service. Am I saying that low standards always mean no power?No. But no discipline does, and from my experience a lot of churches that let down standards also change their disciplines.

And from my experience, which is all I have to go by, I haven't seen much difference. Sorry. I would give anything to see some miracles in these parts, but everybody seems to have their eyes on tithe money or watching what their neighbor does or does not do. Or area pastors fighting over the saints, who decide to leave one church and make their home in another.

I don't want to make light of your experience. I believe that God can do all things. Nowhere did I see that Jesus refused to help people because of their clothing or because of how they looked. He even had compassion on the woman found in the act of adultery.

So I just do not see what difference it makes if a woman wants to cut her hair or wear slacks. They all seem to act the same in my region. I can remember in my younger years, I went to work in a sewing factory. The bible says that we are supposed to prefer one another's company? Some of these pentecostal women had more fun sitting with rabble-rousers telling dirty jokes and wanted no part of their sisters in the Lord.

One can wear slack and cover up very well. One can wear skirts and look trashy too.

[tv1a]

In the past 12 months:
A lady healed of fallen arches in my living room.
A lady was told she needed to go on dialysis until she got a new kidney was healed.
A man who had a fever of 106 for a few hours was healed within 5 minutes after I prayed with he and his wife over the phone.
A lady is told her father's organs were shutting down. Within two hours, he gets out of bed. The first time in three days he got up. Three days later, he was walking around with his walker. His physical therapist had to slow him down.
A person hospitalized with restless leg syndrome was in so much pain she paged a nurse for pain medication. God healed her before the meds arrived. She told the nurse she didn't need the meds.
A man diagnosed with terminal cancer was healed.

I had a dream a friend's kid was terrorizing his parents. A few days later my friend expressed concern that his kid was hanging out with the wrong crowd. I shared my dream with my friend and his wife. I was able to share some biblical principles to help them with their son.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Could list a few of the signs and wonders?

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by CC1

Rebellious teenagers who are not interested in church or God exist in ultra con, con, moderate, and lib churches. How they dress may or may not reflect the condition of their heart. There are plenty of churches with women in jeans who love God, pray, study God's word, and are sold out to living for Christ. Just as there are some churches with women in skirts below their knees, no makeup and no jewelry who are as far from God as one can be. A strict dress code does not mean one is right with God and living a victorious Christian life.

I thought I was clear enough on the point that I don't believe skirts make one "right with God".

Guess not...

All I said was the ultra-cons I grew up under were all extremely disciplined in their walk with God. I don't see that much in the church anymore period. I also don't see a lot of standards in some churches that don't have those disciplines. Am I saying that every church without hardcore ultra-con standards have no discipline? No. Am I saying that I've seen a lot of churches that give up on certain disciplines ALSO give up certain standards they held. Yes.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Well...I'm sorry you find that offensive. I did not have it in mind to be offensive.

However, I just say what I feel and that is how I feel.

If people have to have these standards to be 'disciplined' with their prayer life and fasting then so be it for them.

Again I will repeat, because I am tired of my comments being purposely misconstrued by some. I never said that people have to have these standards to be disciplined. I said that many churches I have seen that have lost their "standards" also lost their disciplines, even suggested that the loss of discipline probably came first and that THAT is what attributed to their loss of power.

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I truly am glad that you have had this experience with standards and fasting and prayer.

I have seen people who are disciplined in their dress and hair standards and were the meanest backstabbing bunch of folk I've ever had the displeasure to be around. Some of them would step on you to higher ground to be noticed. I've seen some of them make fun of their sisters in the Lord. Even the men would say unkind things about other men.

It doesn't say much when people outside of church have more compassion for sickness or financial burdens than those you attend church with.

I've never had this experience in Pentecost at all. I remember once I testified at my old church about my financial issues and after service had saints left and right offer me money. I've been put in charge of collecting offerings for people about to lose their homes. I've never seen anyone mocked for being sick. My home church used to send floods of saints to the hospitals when one of us fell sick. I remember the saints used to joke around and say all 1,500 of us were "on call" at all times. Hospitals in the area knew us because we'd send dozens of people to the hospital at a time. Are there gossipers in the church? Sure. But there were snakes, tigers, bears, and lions on the ark noah built. Doesn't mean I would've jumped ship back then and I don't plan on jumping ship on God now because of a few backbiters.

[Truthseeker]

Trialedbyfire
Your post reminds me of an old thought. All them animals in the ark sure made it stinky and messy but jumping off was the answer.