left upci yr ago and still messed up

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So Cal district is probably mostly moderate UPCs

Southeast used to be UC heaven, it's becoming much more moderate/liberal now.

[RandyWayne]

I left, or rather didn't go back for a number of reasons.

Was I wronged? Well, yes but not as an adult since I was a teen living with my parents the entire time we attended. As a kid though? Most definitely but in the same manner that some ex-Catholics may say that a few of the nuns at Catholic school were mean and nasty to them. The BIG thing was how I was effectively raised by the pastor. My own folks were so whipped by him that whatever HE said was the defacto rule in our house. It was very uncomfortable and one of the reason that the film, Invasion of the Body Snatchers holds a special terror for me. It felt like my folks were brain dead zombies under the control of a Svengali leader who used both persuasion and fear to rule them all.

Besides that I also didn't agree with the standards. The very first "awakening" for me was during the first few months in the church when I heard someone sing the UPC birthday song. Even at 12 I thought, "OK, this is taking separation a bit too far. What was wrong with the original??". And then came some winter outdoor activities where the girls/women wore jean skirts over their snow pants or snowmobile suits. At my young age I knew (or thought I knew) what the principle of the dress code was, but apparently everyone else was more interested in following the letter of the law -and looking just ridicules in the process.

Another big nail occurred during the showing of A Thief in the Night. After the film I heard our pastor talking about the movie and saying "They show a man wearing SHORTS going in the rapture!". THIS was one of the big, if not the biggest eureka moments for me. I realized fully how the standards were nothing but a checklist for salvation and treated no differently than the "three step plan". In fact I started looking at the "three step plan" the same was I looked at standards since I really didn't see a difference in how they were viewed or followed.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Amanah

AYR, why dont you watch Sunday AM services here until you find a church

http://www.fpcpalmbay.com/new/LiveWebcast.html

I bookmarked this website. Thank You Amanah.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by praxeas

personally i think it's silly to call them holiness standards

for starters that term is not in the bible and it's a double standard to come from a group that partially rejects the trinity for using non-biblical language

holiness is a condition of the heart and should mostly be outwardly displayed by how we act and treat others

bingo!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Personally I think it's silly to call them Holiness Standards

For starters that term is not in the bible and it's a double standard to come from a group that partially rejects the trinity for using non-biblical language

Holiness is a condition of the heart and should MOSTLY be outwardly displayed by how we act and treat others

I agree and "standards" as opposed to "modesty" is when you start measuring the cuff or skirt lengths. That's when standards can turn ugly.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree and "standards" as opposed to "modesty" is when you start measuring the cuff or skirt lengths. That's when standards can turn ugly.

Ya, it really is simple. If the only rule was "Don't show anything you don't want anyone of the opposite sex looking at." was applied it would solve virtually every issue. Most ladies could show their <gasp!> elbows because I don't know any who CARE if a guy looks at them. It also allows for single ladies to just maybe show a little more in the process of trying to catch a guys attention they are interested in....

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, it really is simple. If the only rule was "Don't show anything you don't want anyone of the opposite sex looking at." was applied it would solve virtually every issue. Most ladies could show their <gasp!> elbows because I don't know any who CARE if a guy looks at them. It also allows for single ladies to just maybe show a little more in the process of trying to catch a guys attention they are interested in....

Okay, I have no comment here.

Yea, talk about the elbow and everyone is looking at them. I remember a thread that talked about men on the platform and showing/exposing their, ummmm, and I thought to myself, "Oh great, now I will be checking that out. But, I never did or have." LOL

[Rose]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Can you define the "more"?

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to gain an understanding of what you feel is doctrinal, and what is optional.

The New Testament doctrine... what Jesus taught the apostles, what the apostles did in Acts and the letters they wrote to the newly established churches of that era, the gospel, the beatitudes, spiritual growth, fruit of the Spirit, all of it!

Optional? I am not sure what you mean.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, it really is simple. If the only rule was "Don't show anything you don't want anyone of the opposite sex looking at." was applied it would solve virtually every issue. Most ladies could show their <gasp!> elbows because I don't know any who CARE if a guy looks at them. It also allows for single ladies to just maybe show a little more in the process of trying to catch a guys attention they are interested in....

I got some cute little wrinkles embedded in my elbows.

Not sure I would want a member of the opposite sex looking at them though.
That would be creepy.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I got some cute little wrinkles embedded in my elbows.

Not sure I would want a member of the opposite sex looking at them though.
That would be creepy.

When they are crouching and walking close, look out!