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  #91  
Old 01-24-2012, 12:11 PM
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Hoovie Hoovie is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by returnman View Post
Confusion about authority in the pentecostal ranks is brought on by the type of non-biblical church government prevalent. Deacons and elders are just puppets to the "one head man", the pastor.
The term "pastor" is not mentioned in the New Testament. "Pastors" is mentioned in the plural once. Bishop is mentioned several times though...
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Last edited by Hoovie; 01-24-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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  #92  
Old 01-24-2012, 12:57 PM
returnman returnman is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by Titus2woman View Post
You have deacons? Haven't seen one of those since we left the Baptist church... I thought Pentecostals didn't have them... hummm...
I am saying if they where. Same for church board, etc. The excuse or claim is that if the pastor doesn't have sole authority then he must be a hireling which is no more then a cop-out term.
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  #93  
Old 01-24-2012, 12:58 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

Some thoughts from God about shepherds or pastors:
Ezekiel 34: 1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe [be] to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: [but] ye feed not the flock.

4 The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up [that which was] broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.

5 And they were scattered, because [there is] no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them].

10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

FOR WHO IS OUR REAL PASTOR/SHEPHERD?
23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken [it].
25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.
26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.
28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make [them] afraid.
29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.
30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God [am] with them, and [that] they, [even] the house of Israel, [are] my people, saith the Lord GOD.


Jesus through the linage of David is our true shepherd/pastor. The five-fold ministry was given to help guide, and lead the sheep, but the true pastor/shepherd is not a man, but God, Christ Jesus.


31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, [are] men, [and] I [am] your God, saith the Lord GOD.
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  #94  
Old 01-24-2012, 01:03 PM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Jesus through the linage of David is our true shepherd/pastor. The five-fold ministry was given to help guide, and lead the sheep, but the true pastor/shepherd is not a man, but God, Christ Jesus.


.
That one!
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  #95  
Old 01-24-2012, 01:05 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by Titus2woman View Post
That one!
We sistas gotta stick together
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  #96  
Old 01-24-2012, 01:33 PM
seekerman seekerman is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

At least we know we ain't gonna be obeying no woman pastor. That's a positive.
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  #97  
Old 01-25-2012, 08:58 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by NorCal View Post
Acts 20:28; 1 Th. 5:12; Ph. 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:1; Tit. 1:7; Jeremiah 3:15;

If God had not intended for there to be authority in your life, he would have not provided scripture for it.

Heb. 13:17 - Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

We may argue how much authority he should have in your life, but if you do not let him have any, you are biblically wrong.

I agree that a pastor should not "lord" over you (1 Thess. 2:7-8); Should lead by example (1 Pet. 5:3); Care about the welfare of the Saints then their own profit (1 Pet. 5:2); Be humble and not lord over the saints (1 Pet. 5:2); Build people up to free them to God's will (Eph. 4:11-12; 2 Cor. 10:8).

I think I could go on. But it is biblical.
Um...the issue wasn't "is there a such thing as biblical authority", it was where does scripture give any leader the right to heap his convictions upon the saints and demand they follow his convictions. You just gave a bunch of verses explainign that we ought to have spiritual authority figures. Not a single one of them give that authority the right to control our lives or make us follow his own convictions.

If my pastor had severe drinking issues in his life pre pastoring and therefore held to a no alcohol at any time for any reason conviction, should he have the right to tell me not to have a drink or use Nyquill from time to time? Absolutely not. He has not right to expect me to follow his convictions.
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  #98  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:00 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
The term "pastor" is not mentioned in the New Testament. "Pastors" is mentioned in the plural once. Bishop is mentioned several times though...
Funny you never hear a Pastor give a good detailed Bible study on this issue huh?

I always look at the modern role of Pastor and am reminded of how God really pleaded with Israel to NOT appoint a king because he would not be good for them. Taxing them constantly and such. Then Israel did it anyways and regretted it.
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  #99  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:12 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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" And some shall depart from the faith" some watch prophecy being fulfilled and others fulfil prophecy.
Sad but so.
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  #100  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:04 AM
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MawMaw MawMaw is offline
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Re: Visited a non UPC church

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley
"And some shall depart from the faith" some watch prophecy being fulfilled and others fulfil prophecy.


Frightening thought.
And you are right Elder, it is sad, but, so.
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