So if Holy Spirit baptism is a requisite for salvation, we now have salvation being given at a "certain time," like this carrot dangling in front of the new believer?
The fact is Christ already did the work and has invited us in by grace through faith. This notion that you just keep trying and eventually God will wake up and save you is bull....... oney.
1) First bold...GREAT point. 2) Second bold...Just as good a point (and the word you originally used was better).
I'm sorry to offend... but I get weary of these Jesus + (FILL IN THE BLANK) teachings that offend the Cross. Tired of these wacky theological systems that are arrived at by experience, then eisgesis as the Text get's manipulated, molested and raped, stretched out so far it looks like the Prof. Clump trying on a tutu.
If people could just step back and listen to themselves sometimes. Are you sure we are believing the same Gospel?
"If any man preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed."
I've quoted Pelathais on this a million times...."What is it about the cross that wasn't good enough?"
Apostolics don't preach Jesus +.. they preach acts 2:38 is the way to Jesus, the response to his gospel. Baptism is not in addition to Jesus, its putting into Jesus' death
The HG baptism is not an addition to Jesus, its experience Jesus' promise of empowerment.
Ok fine, you're gonna throw in the "Holy Ghost Baptism", what else would you like to throw in?
Is that not your goal also? To live with Jesus forever in the New Jerusalem? Why else would you be living this way? If not to accept the gift of eternal life he is giving you?
I've quoted Pelathais on this a million times...."What is it about the cross that wasn't good enough?"
Yeah, why repent? Why pray? The cross is good enough, isn't it? Why believe? Why own a bible?
The point is that the cross provided everything we need to be saved. Anything we do can NEVER be considered salvation by that deed. There are things we need to do. But by the way you are talking about the cross in contrast to anything else you are implying, purposefully or not, that one need do nothing -- not even repent, pray... nada.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Yeah, why repent? Why pray? The cross is good enough, isn't it? Why believe? Why own a bible?
The point is that the cross provided everything we need to be saved. Anything we do can NEVER be considered salvation by that deed. There are things we need to do. But by the way you are talking about the cross in contrast to anything else you are implying, purposefully or not, that one need do nothing -- not even repent, pray... nada.
So were people "saved" in the Old Testament? Will they be in heaven with us? The major "selling point" of the New Testament is that it's much easier than the requirements of the Old Testament, correct? I mean, we've got all these laws, all these rules. But if one obeys them, if one follows the requirements, one is justified with God.
But here we have, now, the New Covenant which is much more accessible, much easier, much less difficult. But suddenly one runs into this insurmountable obstacle.....one is told one must speak in tongues! There's one group saying this is the initial sign of the infilling of the Holy Ghost which mush be acquired in order to be saved, while another group will proclaim you "saved" without it, but continually tells you that you don't have all God has for you.
But, this person tries and tries and tries....to no avail. It just seems easier to go wrestle a bull, cut his throat, drain the blood, burn him, and head back home. It's dirty, ugly, gruesome work, but hey....at least it's achievable.
So were people "saved" in the Old Testament? Will they be in heaven with us?
No and yes.
lol
They were not saved in their lifetimes in the OT because the cross of Jesus had not been provided for the transgressions under the law. Since the atonement of the cross, they are saved.
Hebrews 9:15 KJV And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
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The major "selling point" of the New Testament is that it's much easier than the requirements of the Old Testament, correct? I mean, we've got all these laws, all these rules. But if one obeys them, if one follows the requirements, one is justified with God.
But here we have, now, the New Covenant which is much more accessible, much easier, much less difficult. But suddenly one runs into this insurmountable obstacle.....one is told one must speak in tongues!
Again, we talked about this before, tongues are not something we have to do in order to get saved. It is something that HAPPENS ON ITS OWN when we receive the Holy Ghost. Why can't people get the concept that the CAUSE is not the EVIDENCE?
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There's one group saying this is the initial sign of the infilling of the Holy Ghost which mush be acquired in order to be saved, while another group will proclaim you "saved" without it, but continually tells you that you don't have all God has for you.
Whatever the case, it is not a matter of trying harder when people believe you are not saved without speaking in tongues. Trying harder does not get anyone the Spirit baptism with initial "evidence" (not cause) of speaking in tongues.
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But, this person tries and tries and tries....to no avail.
That is the problem. TRYING!
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It just seems easier to go wrestle a bull, cut his throat, drain the blood, burn him, and head back home. It's dirty, ugly, gruesome work, but hey....at least it's achievable.
Exactly. And that is why it is not a matter of TRYING and EFFORT. Tongues is EVIDENCE NOT CAUSE.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
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