If Salvation is a absolute free gift.. - Page 10

LUKE2447 · #91 03-24-2011, 10:23 AM

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Originally Posted by onefaith2

Luke do you believe that when a person repents, gets baptized, and is filled with the Holy Ghost, that should they die the moment after that happens they will go to heaven?

Not having any chance to do any works?

they have just did works IMO... What type of works/response are we talking about is the issue. Is baptism something we do? Yes! Is it our power in baptism that saves us? No! Is it the response to the context of this Word which is faith? Yes! Is faith complete in baptism? Yes! Is it him as the source by our faith that saves in baptism? Yes! Does God save without the a right response to the context of his word given? No! It is his provision we respond to thus it is not MY works from ME as source but HIS Word as source. Walking by faith is works in context.

onefaith2 · #92 03-24-2011, 10:24 AM

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Originally Posted by LUKE2447

they have just did works IMO... What type of works/response are we talking about is the issue. Is baptism something we do? Yes! Is it our power in baptism that saves us? No! Is it the response to the context of this Word which is faith? Yes! Is faith complete in baptism? Yes! Is it him as the source by our faith that saves in baptism? Yes! Does God save without the a right response to the context of his word given? No! It is his provision we respond to thus it is not MY works from ME as source but HIS Word as source. Walking by faith is works in context.

I thought you said you didn't call baptism a work? So if you aren't calling belief, baptism, or receiving the HG a work; we aren't saved by works.

If you are calling them works, then you need to tell us why Paul said we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.

The word works in biblical terms are works of the law. You can say we are saved by our response, yes.

mfblume · #93 03-24-2011, 10:30 AM

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Originally Posted by mfblume

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...the moment and very SECOND I was saved before I did any works I was ready for glory...

Again words must be clarified. To say my salvation does not depend on works is not a complete reality. What works? What is the context of what i meant by works. To say judgment in the end is not based on works goes against so much scripture and jewish literature is beyond my even arguing. God's justice system is legal and he determines by witness. He did so with Abraham and he does with us. Faith is contextual by it's nature. It has content and is relative to what is said.

DO you agree with what I emboldened?

Socialite · #94 03-24-2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I thought you said you didn't call baptism a work? So if you aren't calling belief, baptism, or receiving the HG a work; we aren't saved by works.

If you are calling them works, then you need to tell us why Paul said we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.

The word works in biblical terms are works of the law. You can say we are saved by our response, yes.

I'll give Luke some ammo... I do call the very idea of us getting baptized, waiting to receive the Spirit and anything else tacked on to believing by faith addendums to the work of Grace already active and very much real. The idea that I have a part, the preacher has a part and God has a part is cute -- but untrue. Jesus has the only part, and I accept that by believing in faith. And even my believing is not something I can boast of, it's the very gift of God, and the very action of Grace.

My nature is to desperately want to put my name in the credits, to know somewhere I "did the right thing" so that He would save me. The reality is, He did it all. I'm late on the scene, just accepting it by faith, believing in the finished work of the Cross.

There is no moment of suspension. I am saved and justified right there. I am indwelled by the presence of God right there. I am adopted right there. Part of living out and acting out that salvation that already happened is via baptism, a very beautiful welcoming into the family, and from there we are hands-open to God for anything He wants to bestow upon us.

I've never had so much rest in the action of the Cross. He did it. My actions didn't save me, they won't save me now, and they won't be what saves me later. I am saved, I am being saved and I will be saved. This is the work of the Spirit in my life to save me, to sanctify me, and to one day fully redeem me via the resurrection.

Socialite · #95 03-24-2011, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by onefaith2

No not in the context I'm reading it in.

Jesus did the works, said what he said about the Father; all of this that we may choose to believe on Him.

John 6: 28-29 ~ "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that you believe on him whom he has sent."

Believing is even God's work... that's something to chew on for awhile.

But in a grander perspective, the Spirit helps us believe. Is there room in our theology for saying people can resist God's Grace? Sure... I think so. But let's be clear, that we can't even get credit, and prop ourselves up for believing. It's a comical picture when the God of the Universe comes in flesh, puts a cross on His back, extends love to us and we proudly smile like we didn't something grand, in accepting and believing His work for us was enough.

mfblume · #96 03-24-2011, 12:10 PM

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Originally Posted by mfblume

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...the moment and very SECOND I was saved before I did any works I was ready for glory...

Do you agree with what I emboldened?

Hmmm...

LUKE2447 · #97 03-24-2011, 12:29 PM

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Originally Posted by onefaith2

I thought you said you didn't call baptism a work?

I have said it is a matter of context of what is a work. Is it something we do? Yes! Is it sourced by us to acheive salvation? No! God is the giver of the appointed time and it must be done by faith in HIM to do what he said hewould do. Not simply getting wet. Thus yes it is a work or response to receive but it is of faith unto the context of the message delivered. In this it is not MY works but his because we realize his provision in it not ours through the cross.

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So if you aren't calling belief, baptism, or receiving the HG a work; we aren't saved by works.

?

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If you are calling them works, then you need to tell us why Paul said we are saved by grace through faith, not of works.

I have several times and it related to SOURCE. To receive one you have to have the other.

Hebrews 5:9 (English Standard Version)
9And(A) being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

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The word works in biblical terms are works of the law. You can say we are saved by our response, yes.

Faith's response in context is a work. Faith can only be considered just when it is in process.

mfblume · #98 03-24-2011, 04:33 PM

How come no one is answering my question, especially Luke2447, since it was asked of you, L?

JamDat · #99 03-24-2011, 05:51 PM

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Originally Posted by LUKE2447

... do we owe God a debt? Since I have seen people use the most out of balance absolute sense of "gift" and "grace." If we are given a gift. Isn't that freely without any necessity on our part. Does that mean we owe him nothing in return.

There is nothing that you would even be able to start to do to "repay" the gift of salvation. In fact to even try is the sin of pride among others.