UPCI

[TroubleMaker]

Originally Posted by n david

Rush Limbaugh isn't my hero. And Scotty did post scripture, now, you just chose to ignore it.


Acts 2:38 is pretty plain and simple. "...be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ ..."

And Matthew 28:19 is just as plain. I'm just saying, it's not fair to say, "No one in the bible was ever baptized in the name of the Father....etc." It is equally as true that no one ever baptized anyone by saying, "In the name of Jesus."

Scotty posted scripture but it was irrelevant. I could post Obadiah 8:32, but it wouldn't matter.

Look, I would hope that everyone could admit that biblical baptismal formulas are ambiguous at best. I cannot believe that Moody, Spurgeon, Luther, Moody Bible Institute, Dallas Theological Seminary, on and on and on, are complete idiots. They got their way of baptizing from somewhere and MT 28:19 shouldn't be ignored or explained away. If you wanna baptize by saying, "In Jesus name", I respect your position. But I believe there is no greater complete way to baptize someone in the name of Jesus, than to say, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

BUT....would you contend that anyone that I baptize that way is absolutely lost because of it? And try not to resort to the standard, "I'll let God decide that" answer.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by TroubleMaker

And Matthew 28:19 is just as plain. I'm just saying, it's not fair to say, "No one in the bible was ever baptized in the name of the Father....etc." It is equally as true that no one ever baptized anyone by saying, "In the name of Jesus."

Scotty posted scripture but it was irrelevant. I could post Obadiah 8:32, but it wouldn't matter.

Look, I would hope that everyone could admit that biblical baptismal formulas are ambiguous at best. I cannot believe that Moody, Spurgeon, Luther, Moody Bible Institute, Dallas Theological Seminary, on and on and on, are complete idiots. They got their way of baptizing from somewhere and MT 28:19 shouldn't be ignored or explained away. If you wanna baptize by saying, "In Jesus name", I respect your position. But I believe there is no greater complete way to baptize someone in the name of Jesus, than to say, "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

BUT....would you contend that anyone that I baptize that way is absolutely lost because of it? And try not to resort to the standard, "I'll let God decide that" answer.

We do not find a doctrine of invocation in the bible.

[TroubleMaker]

Originally Posted by DAII

We do not find a doctrine of invocation in the bible.

Very true. We should start a thread of all things practiced in the modern church that have no scriptural foundation.

But hey Dan, I was told in this thread that I (and my other supposed identities) am even more irritating than you!! I was pretty honored! Sounds like you may need to step up your game!

[scotty]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I added another paragraph that you can take a look at.

But it seems you already missed my point.

Acts 10:48 says they baptized in the name of the Lord. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If Acts 2:38 and Acts 19:5 are both saying they baptized using the words "in the name of Jesus" then Acts 10:48 is saying they baptized using the words "in the name of the Lord". If they actually said a title when the baptized in Acts 10:48 instead of the name then I have proven that a title can be used in place of a name. Therefore what is the difference of Peter baptizing people in the title of Lord and someone today baptizing people in the titles of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Why can Peter baptize people with a title but no one today can?

Originally Posted by jfrog

Acts 10:48 is even simpler. He baptized them in the name of a title. It amazes me that he would do such a thing when saying the word Jesus over the baptized is soooo important.

I guess the point Im making thats being overlooked is the words "in name of" Thats the real issue of it all. What is that "name" ? Dont matter if it says of the Father , Son, Holy Spirit, Lord..... what is the name. Thats the point the Bible makes over and over again. Whats the "name" they are baptizing in ? Jesus. So ....

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by scotty

I guess the point Im making thats being overlooked is the words "in name of" Thats the real issue of it all. What is that "name" ? Dont matter if it says of the Father , Son, Holy Spirit, Lord..... what is the name. Thats the point the Bible makes over and over again. Whats the "name" they are baptizing in ? Jesus. So ....

In that case you admit that in acts 10:48 that no one actually said, "in the name of the Lord" over the people being baptized. Since they didn't actually say those words in acts 10:48 what makes you think the bible means they said "in the name of Jesus" over the people being baptized in Acts 2:38 and Acts 19:5?

[scotty]

Originally Posted by jfrog

In that case you admit that in acts 10:48 that no one actually said, "in the name of the Lord" over the people being baptized. Since they didn't actually say those words in acts 10:48 what makes you think the bible means they said "in the name of Jesus" over the people being baptized in Acts 2:38 and Acts 19:5?

John 20:31
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 3:6
Then Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.”

Acts 4:10
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Acts 4:30
by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

Acts 8:16
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:18
And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:17
This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

I believe the bible "means" it because it says it.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by scotty

John 20:31
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Acts 3:6
Then Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.”

Acts 4:10
let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.

Acts 4:30
by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

Acts 8:16
For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:18
And this she did for many days. But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour.

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:17
This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

I believe the bible "means" it because it says it.

How about you stop being a hypocrite then and start ending all your posts in Jesus' name I mean if you believe ya should do ALL things in Jesus' name then its time you start doing ALL things that way.

EDIT: None of those scriptures you posted other than the ones you already have say anything about baptism. Why even bring them up?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I can't find any information on that bible sam. I can't even find an online rendition of it.

try
http://www.essenescrolls.com/peshitta/index.php

[Sam]

Originally Posted by scotty

For the sake of study and discussion, what do you believe was said over baptism. I understand your approach as far as "this was not specifically said." What, in your opinion, do you believe the diciples did say in these references ?



Nice cop out.

But seriously, I would pose the same question to you as I did Sam. The references I have quoted from scripture do tip the scales in favor of Jesus name baptizm. What scripture references do you have to offer that would give wieght to baptizm in the titles ?

On a side note, how are we reading the following scriptures as NOT being Jesus name baptizm ?

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

I'm not 100 percent sure that one person dipped another like we do today and that there was a "formula" spoken. If Christian baptism is a carryover from the Jewish mikveh, a person would self-immerse 3 times. Someone would witness that baptism so it would be said that the person was baptized in the name of the one who witnessed it. Also, rabbis gathered disciples around them and the disciples would self-immerse and it would be said that they were baptized in the name of their leader/rabbi. Also, there is a possibility that nothing was said but that the person self-immersing would call on the name of the Lord.

Having said all that, I assume that if one person actually dipped the other (with Philip and the eunuch it is said that they both went down into the water) I would expect that they would say, "...in the name of Jesus Christ...." but that is my opinion based on their saying "...in the name of Jesus Christ..." when they healed or cast out demons.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by scotty

So then what is the name of the Lord ?
What is the name of the Father ?
What is the name of the Holy Ghost ?
What is the name of the Son ?

Why would it be recorded in scripture if it were not important what was spoken over baptism ? To come to your conclusion you are having to ignore scripture just for the sake of ignoring the whole point of the conversation. If you have no answers then simply say so.

I see Jesus commanding them to baptize in the "name" of the Father, the "name" of Son and the "name" of the Holy Spririt. The diciples response to this command was Acts 2:38 as well as others I have posted. In light of the obvious I just cant seem to understand not only why Jesus name baptism seems so confusing to some but why bother with the argument against it.

EDIT: you answered some of my post before I got it posted with your EDIT. Thanks.

This wasn't asked of me but I'll chime in.

Some of our elders taught that the triune or three-one God has a triune or three-one name. As Father He is called Lord; as Son He is called Jesus; and as Holy Ghost He is called Christ, therefore God's compound name is "Lord Jesus Christ." I personally do not believe that. It is my opinion that the one name shared by the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus or Yeshua which means JHWH-Savior. Since there are several people called Jesus in our New Testament (including Joshua the successor of Moses) I believe it is best to say "Jesus Christ" to show plainly that you are speaking of Jesus the Christ/Messiah and not some other Jesus (but I'm sure God would know which Jesus you were referencing if you left off "Christ").