Rick Warren Statement

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Read his book "The purpose driven church"...you'll see what percentage are real believers or not. Church numbers are exaggerations at times. In most churches you have your full timers, part timers and visitors

For sure. 40,000 people don't attend every week. I think it's somewhere around 17-18,000? Willow Creek is at about 18,000 weekly (although they've farmed out thousands to the Chicago area to other churches they've started) and their membership is around 30,000 or so...actually a pretty good percentage.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I have not read that book but i know stats can be complicated - and often are designed that way.

Even in our Pentecostal churches, have you considered the large disparity between
1. Membership
2. Attendance
3. Constituency

Attendance may be three times that of Membership. And "Constituency" could be five to ten times the figure given for membership.

I would highly encourage you to read the book. There's a reason it's been so well received. And if you ever read a book from my "corner of the church-world", read "They Like Jesus But Not The Church" by Dan Kimball....pretty please?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by notofworks

It's possible that others on AFF could better me in talent, education, preaching ability, and biblical knowledge. But no one could top me (match me, possibly) in my passion for the local church and making sure the line of believers behind me is as long as possible. I live for nothing else. I'm completely consumed by it and nothing else in this world inspires me. Of course, my personal family is #1 and our personal circumstances are the only thing that keep me from working every waking minute that I'm not asleep.

So if there's ever the impression that I'm not serious about Jesus Christ or the mission of the local church or the ecumenical church, I've been misunderstood.

As far as the mission of the local church....when one reads the New Testament, one must be aware that nearly every instruction given is with an awareness of the impact it will have on those that are outside the faith. I don't see that the early church had any other care than to spread the redemption of Jesus Christ to everyone possible. The church is based on the Cross of Jesus Christ and the purpose of the cross was the redemption of mankind.

And I love the fact that guys like Rick Warren, who could take it easy for the rest of this life and be very happy that 40,000 people call Saddleback their home, is still as passionate as ever about reaching people. The same can be said of Bill Hybels, Andy Stanley, Perry Noble, Erwin McManus, and others.

I once saw Eddie Long, who is a part of the TBN bunch that I don't care for at all, speaking at a gathering of ministers. In the middle of his message, he was overcome with agony for how little he had done for Christ. I had never heard of him at the time. He wept like I've never seen anyone in a sermon and he bent over double and tears poured from his eyes and....I know this is yucky...but stuff poured from his nose as he wept. There wasn't an ounce of dignity in him. He finally said, "When I realize how many people are in this city that need Jesus, the agony is unbearable", and he started the process all over again.

I tell this because I looked up Eddie Long and found out that he pastored a church of 30,000 people. I don't ever want to lose my passion for those who don't know Christ. It's the only thing in life that really matters to me.

I was just thinking about this the other day. How many of us travail over lost souls. My mom use to lie on the floor and pray and travail for lost souls, and she was a woman of great faith. I often pray for more of a burden of the lost.
And I wondered how many pastors, preachers, and saints really labored for the lost. And how many will be lost because we don't.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I wish to apologize to NOW,it seems that my choice of words this morning on the Rick Warren statement thread were the not best way to express myself.

I did not mean to sound harsh,or sound like I was causing strive,please forgive me for any misunderstanding or hard feelings that was caused from anything I have posted.

Good grief, Scott. I think it should be the other way around.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jfrog

How would you propose they count heads?

I don't propose they count heads

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Scott,..... Harry would be so hurt to know that you didn't know him. He's Majority Leader of the Senate! He just spoke some disparaging words about Obama. You know Obama, the Pres? Then he apologized. Kinda!!! Sorry my joke didn't work..

Okay, this made me snicker. Stop it!

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I disagree.

To begin with evangelism in the bible was always OUT THERE. Evangelism was not about inviting your friends and hoping for a move of the Holy Ghost and for the preacher to be "on"....in fact I think that is one reason why we don't have larger church growth.

Early Pentecostals in the last century regularly had street meetings where they witnessed, did a little preaching, sang some songs and passed out tracts.

I've been in church meetings with the move of the Spirit of God and visitors and seen many receive the Spirit (supposedly) but never return or just not receive anything at all and not return.

The Presence of God is important and actually more important to believers. Like in Acts 4 or 5 when they were refilled with the Spirit, it gave them more boldness, increased their faith. that is what the church needs and that is what the gifts are for mostly and what a church meeting is for mostly...so we can be empowered to go out and be witnesses

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I don't propose they count heads

For what reason do you think attendance is best left uncounted?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by jfrog

For what reason do you think attendance is best left uncounted?

I don't think it's better left uncounted, I just don't see much point in counting heads especially when they are often miscounted

[Scott Hutchinson]

I have never read The Purpose Driven Church,so I can't honestly say what is in the book,however among Charismatics,The Purpose Driven Church has it's critics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PStqjTZEGk