The catching away

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by easter

Godsdrummer if you preached this for 40 years you know there is scripture backing up what I'm saying.I will post these scriptures this afternoon when I get a chance.
The thing that gets me is how you folks believe that the day of the Lord has already happened.Now if this were true there would be an account of this event.The church was very young and don't you think when John was given the Revelation that this"THE DAY OF THE LORD" would have failed to be mentioned?
You know Revelation was written(ca. 96 AD )
I'll give you scripture because Jesus warned you about hearing he had already come,he told you not to believe it.I'll give you that scripture also.

Revelation is the account given to John as to what would SHORTLY come to
pass and it did happen. The church (people of God) had fled Jerusalem, just
as Jesus told them in Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 to do. When they saw
those armies surrounding Jerusalem, they didn't go back down off the rooftop
to get anything, they just fled unto the hills. Those who heard the words of
Jesus and believed and obeyed His words fled and were saved. Jesus told his
disciples that the words he spake unto them, were spirit and life.

Rev.1:1-3

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Who said Jerusalem was written in 96 AD. That is debateable.

God doesn't leave Himself without witness. Acts14:17

Falla39

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Raven

I'm afraid we may have a long, long wait for the scriptures concerning the anti-christ!
Raven

Yes, I think so.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by easter

Bro.Blume "The Antichrist is another name for "The Man Of Perdition"
The Man of Sin,This Man of Perdition is titled Antichrist.The beast,the little horn,the Lawless one,the Man of sin,the man of Perdition is (the Antichrist) this is plain and clear in the scriptures.

No it is not. See? You did nto get that from the bible because the bible clearly states that anitchrist is

1) a spirit that denies Jesus came in flesh.

2) When it is applied to people they are people who were in the church and left.

You are repeating a man-made error. You took mistaken tradition and insist it is truth when the bible says nothing like you are saying. Antichrist is not the son of perdition nor the beast, lawless one, etc. Nothing in 1 John 2, 1 John 4 or 2 John says anything remotely similar about anitchrist that you are saying. You got that from man, for the Bible never said it.

Easter, I know you love truth. But please consider what I am saying. I've been there and done that.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Raven

I'm afraid we may have a long, long wait for the scriptures concerning the anti-christ!
Raven

I remember many years ago, Sis. Joan Ewing speaking at a ladies conference,
was telling about something she had asked her father, then she said, " I
don't remember who the anti-christ was that year.

Many cannot believe something unless they see it literally. How can you see
a spirit. Many will not believe in Jesus because they can't see him literally.
God is a (THE)Spirit! The Holy Spirit.

Jesus told his disciples if they didn't believe his words to believe the works
(miracles) he did. God was doing the works, in and through the man, Christ
Jesus. Jesus did miracles that his own disciples would believe he was who he
said he was.

Too many today are looking for a "man", a physical anti-christ. Today there
are, as in that first century, many anti-christ spirits gone out into the world.
Those spirits are in many men. (and women). Anti-christ not only means
"against" Christ, but "in the place of" Christ.

Why not look for the works/fruit of the Father/Spirit, that was in the man,
Christ Jesus. God was glorifed in and through the man, Christ Jesus. The Word
speaks of when "he comes to be glorifed in his saints". God (Spirit, Deity,
Father) is glorified in his "temples". God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto Himself.

Falla39

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by easter

Godsdrummer if you preached this for 40 years you know there is scripture backing up what I'm saying.I will post these scriptures this afternoon when I get a chance.
The thing that gets me is how you folks believe that the day of the Lord has already happened.

You say this because you have only known one viewpoint of interpretation and it is shocking to see something different. Everyone is like that with anything they never heard before. Mormons would be shocked to think we are not going to be gods one day after hearing otherwise all their lives. ANYTHING different, even if it is truth, sounds shocking when heard for the first time in contrast to traditions known all our lives beforehand.

The fact is that Hebrews said the early church was in the last days.

Hebrews 1:2 KJV Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

John said that he knew he was in the last days since many antichrists abounded.

1 John 2:18 KJV Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

And when you think of last day, you think of the pop-prophecy teaching you heard for years. You have been conditioned to think of NOW. But if you were taught wrong, and the last days were actually the last days of the TEMPLE activity and the Old Jewish economy, that was actually ended at the cross, but was outwardly ended when the temple was actually destroyed, then you would see how this all fits.

Jesus told Jerusalem her house would be left desolate. He said it would occur in their generation.

Matthew 23:36-38 KJV Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (37) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! (38) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Everyone, even futurists, know this was AD70. But then they take identical words onlyone chapter later and say it is not that same generation, but one in our day:

Matthew 24:34 KJV Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

The words in Matt 23 prompted to disciples to realize it would occur in THEIR DAY! So they got worried.

Matthew 24:1-2 KJV And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. (2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

The disciples knew an entire AGE WOULD END if the temple was going to be destroyed! And Jesus said nothing about it being rebuilt as it had been in the two times it was destroyed before. He said it would BE LEFT DESOLATE. It would REMAIN DESTROYED. And the Greek word for WORLD in the next verse is actually AGE.

Matthew 24:3 KJV And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world (AGE)?

They were not concerned for something to occur thousands of years after they were dead. They were concerned about when the temple would be destroyed and an age would end. THAT is why Hebrews 1:2 says they were int he last days. They knew the temple age would end. That is why John said he was in the last days.

Now if this were true there would be an account of this event.The church was very young and don't you think when John was given the Revelation that this"THE DAY OF THE LORD" would have failed to be mentioned?

You know Revelation was written(ca. 96 AD )

No, Revelation was written before AD70. It is false tradition from ONE ACCOUNT made by Irenaeus to think the Rev. was written in AD96. Irenaeus was so offkey with time and years that he said Jesus died at the age of FIFTY! And everyone who says the book was written in AD96 gets it from this single source of a dude who could not even reckon time with Jesus' death properly.

We read accounts everywhere of how Matt 24, for example, was fulfilled when the Romans surrounded Jerusalem and the Christians fled to Pella.

Eusebius (325)

"But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. " (History of the Church 3:5:3)

"The whole body, however, of the church at Jerusalem, having been commanded by a divine revelation, given to men of approved piety there before the war, removed from the city, and dwelt at a certain town beyond the Jordan, called Pella. Here those that believed in Christ, having removed from Jerusalem, as if holy men had entirely abandoned the royal city itself, and the whole land of Judea; the divine justice, for their crimes against Christ and his apostles finally overtook them, totally destroying the whole generation of these evildoers form the earth. (Eusebius, 3:5.)

"After all those who believed in Christ had generally come to live in Perea, in a city called Pella of the Decapolis of which it is written in the Gospel and which is situated in the neighborhood of the region of Batanaea and Basanitis, Ebion's preaching originated here after they had moved to this place and had lived there." (Panarion 30:2)

"For when the city was about to be captured and sacked by the Romans, all the disciples were warned beforehand by an angel to remove from the city, doomed as it was to utter destruction. On migrating from it they settled at Pella, the town already indicated, across the Jordan. It is said to belong to Decapolis (de Mens. et Pond., 15).

"Now this sect of Nazarenes exists in Beroea in Coele-Syria, and in Decapolis in the district of Pella, and in Kochaba of Basanitis-- called Kohoraba in Hebrew. For thence it originated after the migration from Jerusalem of all the disciples who resided at Pella, Christ having instructed them to leave Jerusalem and retire from it on account of the impending siege. It was owing to this counsel that they went away, as I have said, to reside for a while at Pella" (Haer 29:7).

"For when all who believed in Christ had settled down about that time in Peraea, the majority of the emigrants taking up their abode at Pella, a town belonging to the Decapolis mentioned in the Gospel, near Batanea and the district to Basanitis, Ebion got his excuse and opportunity. At first their abode was Kochaba, a village in the district of Carnaim, Arnem, and Astaroth, in the region of Basanitis, according to the information we have received. But I have spoken, in other connections and with regard to other heresies, of the locality of Kochaba and Arabia (Haer 30:2)... "[The Ebionites] spring for the most part from Batanea ... and Paneas, as well as from Moabitis and Cochaba in Basanitis on the other side of Adraa" (Haer 30:18).

I'll give you scripture because Jesus warned you about hearing he had already come,he told you not to believe it.I'll give you that scripture also.

Jesus had already come in destruction according to Matthew 24, but He has not already come for the church in resurrection, where I agree with you. I think you err in thinking every reference to Jesus' coming has to be in our future. What about this:

Matthew 21:40 KJV When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Matthew 21:41 KJV They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Matthew 21:45 KJV And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

Matthew 16:28 KJV Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 10:23 KJV But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Matthew 26:63-64 KJV But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. (64) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

I trust you really study this out some more, since if you are being shown truth from the Lord through this chat, I would not want to reject the Lord if I were you.

[mfblume]

LAST DAYS

Daniel was told about the LAST DAYS in Daniel 12.

Daniel 12:4 KJV But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Daniel was told the understanding was not for his day, but for those living in the time of the end. THEY would understand. (Many take this as scientific advancement in natural science, as though the reference to knowledge increasing is about natural wisdom. It is speaking about knowledge of what the visions Daniel saw mean, and not science).

Daniel 12:8-9 KJV And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? (9) And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

If that sealed book was unsealed at the time of the end, and Daniel only lived 600 or so years before Christ, then what does the following mean about what the LAST DAYS refers to ?

Revelation 22:10 KJV And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

The book was UNSEALED in John's day, 2,000 years ago, for the time was AT HAND.

John was in the last days!

Nathaniel Urshan said that the apostles THOUGHT they were in the last days, but we know better and KNOW WE are in the last days. I think I agree with John and not Nathaniel Urshan.

And some might think the last days BEGAN in the first century. LOL. Last DAYS are not last centuries. And when Daniel only lived 600 years before John and could not see the meaning since it was for the time of the end, that is a much shorter time from John's day than OUR DAY which is 2,000 years later! So it is ridiculous to say the LAST DAYS began in the early church. LAST DAYS means the short time at the end. Not an entire church age of a time period larger than the entire Old Covenant centuries put together! lol

It is not the last days of the earth, or this church age, but the last days of the OLD SYSTEM when outward activity still went on with the temple, etc.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Easter

Here is the thing, Mike has given you scripture for all of his thoughts but you have not. Where does it say the man of perdition is titled the ant-christ? Or any of the others you have said for that matter.

SCRIPTURE CONCERNING THE ANTICHRIST

He wiil arise from a nation that was part of the old Assyrian empire(Isaiah 10:5)
He will come up from among the 10 nations of the revised Roman Empire(Daniel 7-8)
He will come out of one of the 4 divisions of the old Grecian empire(ie either Greece,Turkey,Syria,or egypt(Daniel 8-9
He is the king of the North(Daniel 11:40
He is the 8th and final world ruler to oppress Israel,heading the revived Grecian Empire(Revelation 17:10-11
He is the little horn(Daniel 7-8)Daniel 7:20)Daniel 8:9)
He corrupts by flatteries (Daniel 11:21)Daniel 11:32)Daniel 11:34)
He enters peacably(Daniel 11:21)
He makes war with the saints(Daniel 7:21)Daniel 7:25)
He speaks words against the most high(Daniel 7:25)
His power comes from Satan(Daniel 8:24)
He shall confirm the covenant with many(Israel) for one week(7 YEARS)Daniel 9:27
Possess Human qualities(Daniel 7:8
Shall change times and laws(Daniel 7:25
Will be utterly destroyed(Daniel 7:26
Opposses God(2 Thessalonians 2:4)
Exalts himself above God(2 Thessalonians 2:4)
Will be destroyed at Christ's coming(2 Thessalonians 2:8)
This power rises out of a symbolic sea(Revelation 13:4)
He continues for 42 months(Revelation 13:5)
Makes war with the saints(Revelation 13:7)
The saints who reject the mark have christ's faith(Revelation 14:2)
The redeemed will overcome the beast's mark(Revelation 15:2-3)
The harlot is Babylon(Revelation 17:5)
It's sits upon 7 mountains as does the city of Rome(Revelation 17:9)
These 10 horns which represents Europe (SEE DANIEL 7:24)
shall become united in purpose in order to provide power and authority to the beast(Revelation 17:12-13
The 10 horns and the beast make war with God and the saints(Revelation 17:14)

[easter]

The Harlot (Babylon is a great city which will reign over the world's leaders(Revelation 17:18)
The beast is cast into the lake of fire(Revelation 19:20)

So if it's the name ANTICHRIST you wonder over?
The word Demon is not in the Bible but Jesus cast plenty of Demons out of people.
So from hence forth if it's the name antichrist that you don't understand then we will call him by the same name the word of God calls him "THE MAN OF PERDITION"THE LAWLESS ONE<THE MAN OF SIN"
The Bible talks of unclean spirits,we call the unclean spirits"DEMONS"right?
The Bible talks about the Man of sin,We call the man of sin the Antichrist.

Concerning the DAY OF THE LORD
Read all of Matthew 24
Jesus warned us.He knew there would be some that would believe that the day of THE LORD would happen,when infact it has not.Jesus warned us of this very teaching.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Falla39

I remember many years ago, Sis. Joan Ewing speaking at a ladies conference,
was telling about something she had asked her father, then she said, " I
don't remember who the anti-christ was that year.

Many cannot believe something unless they see it literally. How can you see
a spirit. Many will not believe in Jesus because they can't see him literally.
God is a (THE)Spirit! The Holy Spirit.

Jesus told his disciples if they didn't believe his words to believe the works
(miracles) he did. God was doing the works, in and through the man, Christ
Jesus. Jesus did miracles that his own disciples would believe he was who he
said he was.

Too many today are looking for a "man", a physical anti-christ. Today there
are, as in that first century, many anti-christ spirits gone out into the world.
Those spirits are in many men. (and women). Anti-christ not only means
"against" Christ, but "in the place of" Christ.

Why not look for the works/fruit of the Father/Spirit, that was in the man,
Christ Jesus. God was glorifed in and through the man, Christ Jesus. The Word
speaks of when "he comes to be glorifed in his saints". God (Spirit, Deity,
Father) is glorified in his "temples". God was in Christ, reconciling the world
unto Himself.

Falla39

The mistake in your view is we know the Antichrist is a spirit that will indwell a man(Revelation 13:4)

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by easter

The mistake in your view is we know the Antichrist is a spirit that will indwell a man(Revelation 13:4)

The anti-christ spirit was indwelling men in the last days of the first
century and has been indwelling men ever since. It was/is not just one man.

2John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Before John wrote the above, the apostle Paul said:

Acts 20: 28-31,
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

This continues today. Spirits of deception and anti-christ.

Falla39