Why do folks have a silly notion about being UPC only if licenced?

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

What is your point, CupCake? Are you trying to call me a liar? If you are, then come right out and make your accusation. I haven't called you a liar, or implied it in any way.

Wow~ You are sure leaping here, slow down. No I'm not calling you a liar! If you go back and read what I wrote, you'll see I never said anything about you not hearing this type of teaching as heaven or hell, yet you make it very clear to me this just can't be!

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I've simply pointed out that your experiences aren't an accurate reflection of 100% of UPCI churches, because I attend a UPCI church, have UPCI friends, and know and attend other UPCI churches, and conferences, and I haven't had the same experiences you have.

I remember how it was when I was in the movement, you don't see or view these things as such, until you stand back and see whats really being taught and said. But once more you are making it clear that what I said just can't be so!

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Is there some reason why it is difficult for you to believe that such a difference could exist?

Again I'm posting to a post made by Cooper. I could ask you the same ( Is there some reason why it is difficult for you to believe that such a difference could exist?)

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Would you like to call my pastor and ask him directly? Would you like to order the tapes from our last 6 months of services? How about from our most recent Sunday School seminars and campmeetings?

No thank you, if your pastor does not teach it as such your bless. But many do, if they'll be honest.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Taught or believed as salvation, Heaven or hell...where? By whom? Not in my church.

It is certainly not taught as a sign that someone is "right with God", or is one of us.




Its not a simple yes or no, because I'm not the UPCI spokeswoman. I can only speak from my experience, and in my experience the answer is NO, but being the fair-minded individual I am, I have already conceded that your experience is obviously different than mine.

So what are you looking for exactly? I'm just looking for a fair shake, and a nod to my integrity as a Christian, that I wouldn't be dishonest in this conversation. I wouldn't say that my church doesn't teach that, if they really did. *shrug*

You can answer as a no then, but that does not mean it's not so in other churches. I wonder how it would go if a thread was made on this issues, just a simple yes or no.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CupCake

Again I'm posting to a post made by Cooper. I could ask you the same ( Is there some reason why it is difficult for you to believe that such a difference could exist?)

I don't have difficulty believing that. I haven't experienced it, but I'm not denying Coop's bad experience.

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

And I asked you which ones. Simple as that.

First I must get their permission to use there names.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CupCake

First I must get their permission to use there names.

Oh, for goodness' sake. Use their USERnames. I would never ask you to post real names!!!!

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't have difficulty believing that. I haven't experienced it, but I'm not denying Coop's bad experience.

MissBrattified~ I'm not here to fight, ok nor do I want to be your enemy. There are people in all walks of life who are not what they seem, even in the church ranks, bad things do happen to good people that leaves a mark. I'm truly thankful if you or your friends have never had a bad church or pastor count your blessings, but for some of us we've witnessed to much to just say it does not happen. GB ~I must go dinner time here, have a good one~

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Really, Carp. Do you think I can't make the connection or read between the lines when a preacher says "make it" or "be lost"? *very irritated look in your general direction*

I've heard standards taught as heaven or hell issues, more specifically "splittin' hell wide open" issues for YEARS--in AMF and Independent churches and conferences. I have not had that same experience in UPCI churches and conferences. And I've been to my fair share.

Well of course not you...silly...

I am just saying that it is much more politically correct to use those terms as not to scare off the hairy unwashed...only in terms of standards of course...

[COOPER]

Good thread

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Well of course not you...silly...

I am just saying that it is much more politically correct to use those terms as not to scare off the hairy unwashed...only in terms of standards of course...

Hum. I'm going to take "silly" as a term of endearment.

After a little bit of contemplation....the only [UPCI]person I can think of who I have actually heard teach standards in a way that made them seem salvational is Ruth Rieder (Harvey?) at a Ladies' Conference in...um...2000/2001?

She didn't come right out and say it that way (that I can recall), but I would say that she made it obvious it was very, very important, from her point of view. At least as a measure of spirituality.

But I don't really think she counts.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Hum. I'm going to take "silly" as a term of endearment.

After a little bit of contemplation....the only [UPCI]person I can think of who I have actually heard teach standards in a way that made them seem salvational is Ruth Rieder (Harvey?) at a Ladies' Conference in...um...2000/2001?

She didn't come right out and say it that way (that I can recall), but I would say that she made it obvious it was very, very important, from her point of view. At least as a measure of spirituality.

But I don't really think she counts.

The only thing that is confusing and a bit aggravating is when they say the standards are "not" salvational, but if you don't keep them you are considered backslid and you won't be used in the church. That in itself makes the issue salvational.