The simple fact is that the form of Christianity which attempts to base all its beliefs on scripture alone has no basis to declare what is and is not scripture. In fact the origin of this argument is not even atheist or agnostic. The argument comes from Catholics trying to discount the protestant thought that scripture alone is enough. So the Catholic will asks the protestant exactly what Timmy has asked Blume, how do you know which books are scripture and which are not? There is no answer that the protestant can give to this question to assert that he does have a basis. The best response I've ever seen attempted was not to assert that protestants can know, but instead to assert that Catholics also have no clear way of knowing what to count on equal footing with scripture. So basically the only defense a protestant can give to the assertion that they have no basis for what books to call scripture is "you don't either".
The simple fact is that the form of Christianity which attempts to base all its beliefs on scripture alone has no basis to declare what is and is not scripture. In fact the origin of this argument is not even atheist or agnostic. The argument comes from Catholics trying to discount the protestant thought that scripture alone is enough. So the Catholic will asks the protestant exactly what Timmy has asked Blume, how do you know which books are scripture and which are not? There is no answer that the protestant can give to this question to assert that he does have a basis. The best response I've ever seen attempted was not to assert that protestants can know, but instead to assert that Catholics also have no clear way of knowing what to count on equal footing with scripture. So basically the only defense a protestant can give to the assertion that they have no basis for what books to call scripture is "you don't either".
In Romans 3:1-2 the Apostle Paul speaks of the Jews having an "advantage" because to them were committed "the oracles of God" or "the very words of God." It is my understanding that the Jews were chosen by God to be the channel through which He recorded His Word/Revelation/Scriptures and through whom He preserved His Word. Our Old Testament today that most of us use contains the same books (but in a different order and different groupings) that the Jews have accepted as "Scripture" for centuries.
As far as the question about the Apocrypha, the Jews were familiar with some of it and they read and quoted it. Some apocryphal books are included among the Dead Sea Scrolls, but it is my understanding that what we call the Apocrypha was not generally accepted among the Jews to be on the same authoritative level as the books they did and do include in their Bible. It is also my understanding that Jesus, the writers of our New Testament, and other first century writers used the Greek Scriptures also known as the LXX or Septuagint which contained the Apocrypha. And although there may be some allusions in our NT to the apocrypha, there are no direct quotes from the Apocrypha. A passage in Jude may come to mind but there are other explanations that could exclude a direct quote from an existing apocryphal book.
I have a 1611 KJV which not only contains the apocrypha but also contains a cross reference in Hebrews 11:35 to a passage in 2 Maccabees chapter 7. The apocryphal books have not been included in later revisions of the KJB. Other Bibles of mine which include the Apocrypha are: the NRSV, the NEB, the Douay, the Jerusalem Bible, and the Brenton 1851 edition of the LXX.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Father Dennis J. Bennett (born 10/28/17, died 11/1/91) was an Episcopal clergyman prominently identified with the Charismatic Renewal from the beginning. He was pastor of the St. Mark Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, CA., a congregation of about 2600, and in 1959 and early 1960, he and several others in the church were baptized in the Holy Spirit. The group of Spirit-filled believers in the congregation grew and and there was some division among church members over the experience. On April 3, 1960, Pastor Bennett announced his experience in a sermon to the congregation and later resigned his position as pastor. He then moved to St. Luke’s in Seattle and from there traveled nationally and internationally teaching on and ministering the Holy Spirit. In 1970 he wrote a book titled (Nine O'clock in the Morning" in which he estimated that between 8 and 10 thousand people had received the Holy Ghost Baptism through meetings in the Seattle area. The April 3, 1960 date is usually considered the beginning of the Charismatic Renewal so next month will be a 50 year anniversary.
Below is an experience with the Apocrypha he recounted in that book, followed by an explanation of his church's use and attitude toward the Apocrypha:
Three weeks after my resignation, on April 25, the traditional feast of St. Mark, it seemed fitting that those of us who had been meeting together regularly for prayer should fast and pray for the parish and its future. At the end of the day we all met at the rectory and began by reading the evening lessons from the Prayer Book.
“Oh,” I said, as I looked in the lectionary (the list of daily Bible readings in the front of the Prayer Book), “the Old Testament lesson is from the Apocrypha.* I don’t have a copy of the Apocrypha here, so I’ll pick another reading instead.”
“Can’t you get an Apocrypha from your office?” inquired one of the women. “I think we ought to read the lessons as they are appointed. It seems important somehow.”
I found an Apocrypha and turned to the evening lesson. It was from Ecclesiasticus 51:13-22. Everyone listened dutifully as I read the first part of the lesson which was a typical piece of “wisdom” literature, poetic, but not too exciting. I read the twenty-first verse: “My heart was troubled in seeking her (wisdom): therefore have I gotten a good possession.” Then as I read the twenty-second verse there was a sensation: “The Lord hath given me a tongue for my reward, and I will praise Him therewith!”
How could the Holy Spirit have known and guided the compilers of that lectionary, many years before, to select a lesson for St. Mark's Day that would come through with such meaning to this little group of Christians? Marvelous are the ways of God! In amazement we began to praise Him.
*The Apocrypha is a collection of fourteen books, written in the time between the Old and New Testaments. Some of them are historical, some are prophetic, some collections of proverbs and wisdom, one or two illustrated stories, and one very beautiful long psalm. Much of the Apocrypha is very helpful, and any Christian would benefit from reading it. These books were not accepted as part of the Canonical Scripture in the early days. Rome made them a part of her official Scriptures at the Council of Tent between 1545 and 1563. The Episcopal Church, following the custom of the Church of England, reads them: “For example of life and instruction of manner, but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine ...” (Article of Religion VI). Nevertheless, selections from the Apocrypha are appointed to be read on certain days at Morning and Evening Prayer.
Psalm 151 is the name given to a short psalm that is found in most copies of the Septuagint or LXX or Greek but not in the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible. It is included also in some manuscripts of the Peshitta.
Although for many years scholars believed that Psalm 151 might have been an original Greek composition and that “there is no evidence that Psalm 151 ever existed in Hebrew”, we now know from the Dead Sea scrolls that this psalm did in fact exist in Hebrew and was a part of the psalter used by the Qumran community. Psalm 151 appears along with a number of canonical and non-canonical psalms in the Dead Sea scroll
The Eastern Orthodox Church accepts Psalm 151 as canonical. Roman Catholics, Protestants, and most Jews consider it apocryphal. However, it is found in an appendix in some Catholic Bibles, such as certain editions of the Latin Vulgate, as well as in some ecumenical translations, such as the New Revised Standard Version.
Haile Selassie (born July 23, 1892 , died August 27, 1975), was Ethiopia's regent from 1916 to 1930 and Emperor of Ethiopia from 1930 to 1974.At the beginning of his first address to his Council of State, Emperor Haile Selassie recited this psalm in total.
This psalm is ascribed to David as his own composition (though it is outside the number), after he had fought in single combat with Goliath.
1 I was small among my brothers,
and the youngest in my father’s house;
I tended my father’s sheep.
2 My hands made a harp;
my fingers fashioned a lyre.
3 And who will tell my Lord?
The Lord himself; it is he who hears.
4 It was he who sent his messenger
and took me from my father’s sheep,
and anointed me with his anointing oil.
5 My brothers were handsome and tall,
but the Lord was not pleased with them.
6 I went out to meet the Philistine,
and he cursed me by his idols.
7 But I drew his own sword;
I beheaded him, and took away disgrace from the people of Israel.
There are 150 Psalms in most of our Bibles. Some Bibles have more. There are 5 Psalms found in various manuscripts which some believe should be included in our Bibles. They are found in some of the Greek, Vatican, and Syriac documents and two of them are included in the Dead Sea Scrolls. In addition to Psalm 151 which appears above, these are the others:
II. The Prayer of Hezekiah when enemies surrounded him.
(1) With a loud voice glorify ye God; in the assembly of many proclaim ye His glory. (2) Amid the multitude of the upright glorify His praise; and speak of His glory with the righteous. (3) Join yourselves (literally, your soul) to the good and to the perfect, to glorify the Most High. (4) Gather yourselves together to make known His strength; and be not slow in showing forth His deliverance [and His strength] and His glory to all babes. (5) That the honour of the Lord may be known, wisdom hath been given; and to tell of His works it hath been made known to men: (6) to make known unto babes His strength, and to make them that lack understanding (literally, heart) to comprehend His glory; (7) who are far from His entrances and distant from His gates: (8) because the Lord of Jacob is exalted, and His glory is upon all His works. (9) And a man who glorifies the Most High, in him will He take pleasure; as in one who offers fine meal, and as in one who offers he-goats and calves; (10) and as in one who makes fat the altar with a multitude of burnt offerings; and as the smell of incense from the hands of the just. (11) From thy upright gates shall be heard His voice, and from the voice of the upright admonition. (12) And in their eating shall be satisfying in truth, and in their drinking, when they share together. (13) Their dwelling is in the law of the Most High, and their speech is to make known His strength. (14) How far from the wicked is speech of Him, and from all transgressors to know Him! (15) Lo, the eye of the Lord taketh pity on the good, and unto them that glorify Him will He multiply mercy, and from the time of evil will He deliver their soul. (16) Blessed be the Lord, who hath delivered the wretched from the hand of the wicked; who raiseth up a horn out of Jacob and a judge of the nations out of Israel; (17) that He may prolong His dwelling in Zion, and may adorn our age in Jerusalem.
III. When the People obtained permission from Cyrus to return home.
(1) O Lord, I have cried unto Thee; hearken Thou unto me. (2) I have lifted up my hands to Thy holy dwelling-place; incline Thine ear unto me. (3) And grant me my request;3 my prayer withhold not from me. (4) Build up my soul, and destroy it not; and lay it not bare before the wicked. (5) Them that recompense evil things turn Thou away from me, O judge of truth. (6) O Lord, judge me not according to my sins, because no flesh is innocent before Thee. (7) Make plain to me, O Lord, Thy law, and teach me Thy judgments; (8) and many shall hear of Thy works, and the nations shall praise Thine honour. (9) Remember me and forget me not; and lead me not into things that be too hard for me. (10) The sins of my youth make Thou to pass from me, and my chastisement let them not remember against me. (11) Cleanse me, O Lord, from the evil leprosy, and let it no more come unto me. (12) Dry up its roots in (literally, from) me, and let not its leaves sprout within me. (13) Great art Thou, O Lord; therefore my request shall be fulfilled from before Thee. (14) To whom shall I complain that he may give unto me? and what can the strength of men add [unto me]? (15) From before Thee, O Lord, is my confidence; I cried unto the Lord and He heard me, and healed the breaking of my heart. (16) I slumbered and slept; I dreamed and was helped, and the Lord sustained me. (17) They sorely pained my heart; I will return thanks because the Lord delivered me. (18) Now will I rejoice in their shame; I have hoped in Thee, and I shall not be ashamed. (19) Give Thou honour for ever, even for ever and ever. (20) Deliver Israel Thine elect, and them of the house of Jacob Thy proved one.
IV. Spoken by David when he was contending with the lion and the wolf which took a sheep from his flock.
(1) O God, O God, come to my aid; help Thou me and save me; deliver Thou my soul from the slayer. (2) Shall I go down to Sheol by the mouth of the lion? or shall the wolf confound me? (3) Was it not enough for them that they lay in wait for my father's flock, and rent in pieces a sheep of my father's drove, but they were wishing also to destroy my soul? (4) Have pity, O Lord, and save Thy holy one from destruction; that he may rehearse Thy glories in all his times, and may praise Thy great name: (5) when Thou hast delivered him from the hands of the destroying lion and of the ravening wolf, and when Thou hast rescued my captivity from the hands of the wild beasts. (6) Quickly, O my Lord (Adonai), send from before Thee a deliverer, and draw me out of the gaping pit, which imprisons me in its depths.
V. Spoken by David when returning thanks to God, who had delivered him from the lion and the wolf and he had slain both of them.
(1) Praise the Lord, all ye nations; glorify Him, and bless His name: (2) Who rescued the soul of His elect from the hands of death, and delivered His holy one from destruction: (3) and saved me from the nets of Sheol, and my soul from the pit that cannot be fathomed. (4) Because, ere my deliverance could go forth from before Him, I was well nigh rent in two pieces by two wild beasts. (5) But He sent His angel, and shut up from me the gaping mouths, and rescued my life from destruction. (6) My soul shall glorify Him and exalt Him, because of all His kindnesses which He hath done and will do unto me.
Linear Mode
