Emergent Church

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Romans 14:22

Sorry for any confusion regarding relevant vs emergent. I thought they were one and the same. The gist I think I was trying to make is are we (me being upc) heading down that road? Is the future going to be no standards and house meetings with Rock concert Sundays?

My dilemna is that one side of me wants to hold onto tradition while the other side says hey let's get to the brass tacks of the gospel. Seeing people I know firsthand involved scares me because I am confronted with my traditions being challenged and I don't know what side to take.

The 3 choices I see are:

1) Holding to my traditions completely
2) Compromising somewhere in the middle
3) Leaving my traditions, calling my Pastor by his first name, wearing flip flops to church.

I can handle jeans and tee shirts. But to see my sisters cutting there hair, wearing make up and donning pants freaks me out. It is a cultural shock and cause me much inner turmoil.

Can anyone relate to these feelings? My beliefs are being shaken and tested.

Fortunately there is room for both approaches in the church. You can hold to your faith tradition and others can hold to theirs. Why does it have to be one or the other? We're talking about traditions here, not truth. Traditions of men are just that, manmade, and there's really nothing wrong with that. People worship and congregate in ways that appeal to who they are, and people are different so the result is variety of faith traditions. Personally, I like that.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by Romans 14:22

Sorry for any confusion regarding relevant vs emergent. I thought they were one and the same. The gist I think I was trying to make is are we (me being upc) heading down that road? Is the future going to be no standards and house meetings with Rock concert Sundays?

My dilemna is that one side of me wants to hold onto tradition while the other side says hey let's get to the brass tacks of the gospel. Seeing people I know firsthand involved scares me because I am confronted with my traditions being challenged and I don't know what side to take.

The 3 choices I see are:

1) Holding to my traditions completely
2) Compromising somewhere in the middle
3) Leaving my traditions, calling my Pastor by his first name, wearing flip flops to church.

I can handle jeans and tee shirts. But to see my sisters cutting there hair, wearing make up and donning pants freaks me out. It is a cultural shock and cause me much inner turmoil.

Can anyone relate to these feelings? My beliefs are being shaken and tested.

I respect your dilemma. Change is ALWAYS uncomfortable - whether it's good change or bad. Your choices might not be as confining, however, as the three you defined above. Rarely are our choices so narrow that we have to follow one or the other extreme.

It's interesting that you use the word "compromising" in your second option. Is compromise a bad thing? Is it a bad thing all the time? Can it be a good thing? How are you viewing compromise? What does it look like?

Also, your pastor is just a man. He's a fellow laborer WITH you. He's a saint, just like you. You're filled with the same Spirit. "Pastor" shouldn't be seen as a title or an office as much as it should be seen as an action or behavior. Any true pastor should have no problem being called by his first name. That is, after all, his name. If such a man recoils at the lack of respect, perhaps he is thinking more highly of himself than he ought to.

I don't know you. I don't know anything about you. But from the tone of your posts, it already sounds like you know down inside you how you feel about all of this. You just seem to be afraid to admit it to yourself and others. Your traditions are not the problem. Your conflict seems to be around your love for your traditions and their interaction with the questions you have.

I would advise you that you DON'T follow any new movement. DON'T abandon your traditions! DON'T compromise what you believe to be true. Seek the Lord! Seek Him in His Word (He comes in the volume of the book). Seek Him in prayer. Let the Word and the Spirit guide you and teach you. You'll know His voice because every child knows his father. But be prepared. He might ask you to let go of some of those traditions you thought were so important. He might not, but you have to be willing to follow either way.

I'll be in prayer for you.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by Innocuous

Perhaps it would be more precise to say that you have a disagreement with a particular doctrinal position that a particular person(s) who identifies themself with emergent movement than to say that 'emergent church is false doctrine'. Your characterization is too broad and as such is simply not sensical in that there is no such thing as 'emergent church doctrine' per se. To say so is akin to saying "the statement of faith of Burger King is false doctrine", there is no such thing.

now you crossed the line.....nobody disses the King. are you a spy for the golden arches???....or maybe you belong to that cult who worships the red haired girl. the King will reign triumphant...he will subdue all imposters.

LONG LIVE THE KING!!

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by edjen01

now you crossed the line.....nobody disses the King. are you a spy for the golden arches???....or maybe you belong to that cult who worships the red haired girl. the King will reign triumphant...he will subdue all imposters.

LONG LIVE THE KING!!

LOL. I admit, I am partial to the little pig-tailed redhead, although I think the clown's fries are unmatched and I wish the other two had o-rings like the King. Oh well, maybe in heaven they'll get it all right...we can only hope.

You ever wonder what fast food joints will be called there...McDavid's, or Gold Castle or something like that?

[Blubayou]

Originally Posted by jaamez

That's just it! It's NOT about getting more people in the doors, and it's NOT about keeping them there. It needs to be about getting out of our reclusive "holy" buildings, onto the streets where people are, and ministering to them where they are. That's the change that needs to take place! Not changing doctrine, but changing how we view ourselves and how we view our purpose in the earth.

I do think this is where the change should take place- HOw we view ourselves and what our mission on this earth is- I am not for a change in doctrine at all.

[Innocuous]

Originally Posted by Blubayou

I do think this is where the change should take place- HOw we view ourselves and what our mission on this earth is- I am not for a change in doctrine at all.

Ironically, this is one of the major themes in the emergent/emerging world and is part of what THEY mean by 'relevancy'. It's called being 'missional' which is getting back to being incarnational in the world, being the actual hands and feet of Christ in the world in ministry and evangelism. Of course, some naysayers mischaracterize this as tree hugging pinko talk, unfortunately. The idea is to stop merely doing church but to start BEING the church. I think we could all agree on that concept.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Romans 14:22

Sorry for any confusion regarding relevant vs emergent. I thought they were one and the same. The gist I think I was trying to make is are we (me being upc) heading down that road? Is the future going to be no standards and house meetings with Rock concert Sundays?

The future Romo can be whatever you want it to be. And why does "change" have to equate to "no standards and house meetings with Rock concert Sundays"?

Did we have "no standards" before the standards of uncut hair and no slacks on ladies was introduced? The situation isn't one where anyone is seriously saying "Let's throw everything in the trash and have a hippie 'love in'". We're just being challenged to "prove all things and hold fast to that which is good..."

This might be a good example of binary thinking. There are literally millions of alternatives to your either/or scenario.

Originally Posted by Romans 14:22

My dilemna is that one side of me wants to hold onto tradition while the other side says hey let's get to the brass tacks of the gospel. Seeing people I know firsthand involved scares me because I am confronted with my traditions being challenged and I don't know what side to take.

The 3 choices I see are:

1) Holding to my traditions completely
2) Compromising somewhere in the middle
3) Leaving my traditions, calling my Pastor by his first name, wearing flip flops to church.

I can handle jeans and tee shirts. But to see my sisters cutting there hair, wearing make up and donning pants freaks me out. It is a cultural shock and cause me much inner turmoil.

Can anyone relate to these feelings? My beliefs are being shaken and tested.

I can relate - and I think you describe healthy emotions here. But then again, what I have had to do with myself is to challenge my basic beliefs over and over again. I was ordered by a church authority figure to sin on one occasion, and this guy was one of the most acerbic "holiness" preachers in the movement. I had practically vowed to obey his every whim, he being my pastor, and he burned me. I was tested and stood firm - though I did fail when it came to blowing the whistle on the guy because I bought into the whole code of silence thing that we try to enforce as ministers. I don't abide by the code of silence any longer.

Again, the issue isn't do throw everything away and live like Sybarites versus living like Nazis. There are a 1001 choices that we must make every day that defines who we are.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I don't know if all emergent folks fit this.
http://www.letusreason.org/current77.htm

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I don't know if all emergent folks fit this.
http://www.letusreason.org/current77.htm

hmm... that same site tells me that you're in cult there on that couch of yours...

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by George

I've never seen any open letter to Haney and haven't conversed this topic with any UPC people. I came to my own conclusions through my own research. I'm not throwing stones at anyone and I stand firm in my belief that emergent church is false doctrine. I'm not here to argue with you, prove a point, just stating my opinion in which I am entitled.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...chester+wright

This post by Innocuous describes "emerging" the best and most succintly: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...5&postcount=83

Here's a couple of articles written on an evangelical site that may help you as well:

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blo...ease-stand-up/

http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blo...erging-church/

There's many more articles/blogs on that site if you are interested and if you use the search function.